Who Uses ProWave From Zarg

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:26 pm

The soundfiles correspond to the pictures: clean patch, adding a flexor osc, and then the more crazy stufff.

to Jimmy: the 1st picture shows how to connect the Pro-Wave inside modular: Midi Out to Midi in, and L-R OUTs to Mod's Outputs 1 and 2 (for ex.)

Now, for adding another oscillator, you have a few options, but first, connect its Freq input to Pro-Wav's MVC out. Then you have to decide where you want this oscillator to go.

In picture 2, because I want the oscillator to pass through the internal filter, what I did, was connect the Flexor Osc output to the EXT input of Pro-Wave. Then, in the Mixer, you have the option to select an external input signal instead of the Noise generator, which brings this third oscillator to be side by side with OSC A and B, and being processed by the same filters, envelopes and FX. If you want more sound sources, just add a mixer and mix the various signals into the EXT IN, as in pic. 3.

You can also take a signal from the output of the mixer, or the filter, and mix it outside with the oscillators, or route it to other filters for serial filtering. However, there are only two inputs for audio on the pro-wave: EXT and AMP. EXT goes to the mixer, pre filter, and AMP enters right before the FX section, post amplifier envelope, so if you want to shape the amp's contour, you'll need to add VCA modules, at least for external Oscs. This could be avoided by the inclusion of a patch input after the filter, but before the Amp EG, but it's OK as it is, if you're loading the modular, you'll have to learn the modular ways sooner or later, anyway

Here's a zip (actually a rar) with the "Shameless" preset for Pro-Wave and the .dev for modular. This is better than posting another picture, but you'll need SpaceF's Blackbox and FlexorIII to open this dev (not the preset, tho, it's all Pro-Wave with Shroomz Tube Warmer).

Thanks!

T

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:57 pm

You are too kind. I have been trying this for a while with no luck. Everyone 'round here thinks I am a capable Modular guy. I am only good at certain things, but this is a new direction I wish to venture into.

I also have Solaris in it's Modular version. Now I will have some serious fun with these. I sure hope those filters make it to Solaris as they are the buzziest FAT fuckers I have heard in SFP period.

I have all of SpaceF's stuff, and Flexor III jusy laying around and waiting for tomight. I am on it like stink on shit.

Thanks Again Brosky,

Have fun with your stewardess rack and the MC500-MKII !!!!

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:21 pm

scope4live wrote: Just installed ProWave 1_2 and have to say that this was an audio upgrade for sure... My favorite is the SSB LP, as it has the range of sweeping that is as extreme as the CEM's, but has the right amount of Buzz, and is very powerful. I can insert it into previos powerful presets and tweak it down just a little.

Glad to help! Didn't I tell you about the 1.2? Very quiet about this, he was... I only found out about it by chance while browsing through the zarg website.

I agree that the new Moog and SSM filters are awesome, (esp the SSM, that you can't find anywhere else in scope ) but there is the problem of loading the old presets and losing the sound. So I kept the 1.1.1 device, copied the preset list, and now I have them both, for choice!

They actually are two different synths, if you think about it, as the filters are so different. I keep both modules too.

This is my only JB synth, as I am a great fan and abuser of SpaceF's devices, and flexIII and modular keep me busy enough... that's why I didn't go for Solaris yet. But I do use the Pro-Wave in about 90% of my tracks, and that's really not for lack of choice... when I want beautiful, I go for this one first.

It's nice that you brought this up! I also imagined many of us were Pro-Wave users, so it's a bit of a surprise to see so little posting in this thread. Don't know if the SSM and Moog LP are also available as RD modules, but they sure are worth the price of the synth, IMO.

T

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:24 pm

I happen to have the Solaris in Modular as a beta.

I will wet my appetite with PW then go for the Solaris Modular.

I purposely avoid Modular because I am quite lame w/ it.

It gets really deep quickly on me.

I do have the time now and am not under any guns for production, so I am going to force myself to do this.

I will need a few weeks for sure.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:08 am

Right. You're all bastards trying to get me to spent money I dont have

ProWave has audio input as well right !? What kind of processing is done on this input ?

I am wondering what will happen if I feedback the output of 2 ProWaves back into eachother!

I will try this tonight with pro-12/minimax/prodessey and varius combos of it! Then again if its only the audio signal + filter&effects I dont see how it would add much.....

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:30 am

much appreciated posts and examples, Tau

I have few times for synths currently, but the files reminded me on the straight and simple design (love that) of the ProWave... and the 2 new filters...
a bit of a deja vu, as when i bought the QWave I didn't 'need' that either...

cheers, Tom

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:51 am

Yeh, thanks for the info & examples Tau!!

I listened to the examples & I'm wondering.. did you use the same midi notes, velocities etc coming from a sequencer or did you play them live? Just curious

btw, the 3rd mp3 "shameless complex", has a serious Korg Wave Station quality about it !! (at least according to my memory of that classic WS sound which I've not used in many years)

cheers,
S

Ben Walker · Post by **Ben Walker** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:08 am

Tau,

many thanks for posting these pics and the dev - I must confess I dabbled with the ProWave modular when I first got it, but got a bit scared.
Your examples will really help.

And to reply to Jimmy's first post, I think this is my favourite Zarg synth of all. Much as I love the Solaris for its incredibly modular structure, there's something about the immediacy of the ProWave that makes me come back to it all the time. I think sometimes the Solaris makes me think too much, wheras sometimes you just want to tweak a bit and then play and with ProWave you can do just that. I can't reccommend this synth highly enough.

Ben

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:48 am

Shroomz II wrote: did you use the same midi notes, velocities etc coming from a sequencer or did you play them live? Just curious
btw, the 3rd mp3 "shameless complex", has a serious Korg Wave Station quality about it !! (at least according to my memory of that classic WS sound which I've not used in many years)

Yup, it's the same MIDI clip. I tweaked the filter cutoff by hand a little in each example, not exactly the same for all.

I still have a Wavestation SR, but I don't get to use it much, as it takes too long to program. I wish I did, it sounds extraordinary... It is, after all, another one of Bowen's designs.

What would be awsome is if it was possible to program patches on the VST version (that I don't have, but looks great) and then load them in the hardware module, turning the SR into a sort of DSP box... dreaming, I know, I've been like that since I read the wavestation VST can load patches from the hw, but not the other way around...

See you soon,

T

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:41 am

I got it going now after your example and some good old fashioned reading of the tutorials.

I am hoping to turn this into a more live performance weapon where presets could be used with effect.

I am hoping this might help.

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23261

mr. prawn · Post by **mr. prawn** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:41 am

Tau wrote:
Shroomz II wrote: did you use the same midi notes, velocities etc coming from a sequencer or did you play them live? Just curious
btw, the 3rd mp3 "shameless complex", has a serious Korg Wave Station quality about it !! (at least according to my memory of that classic WS sound which I've not used in many years)
Yup, it's the same MIDI clip. I tweaked the filter cutoff by hand a little in each example, not exactly the same for all.

I still have a Wavestation SR, but I don't get to use it much, as it takes too long to program. I wish I did, it sounds extraordinary... It is, after all, another one of Bowen's designs.

What would be awsome is if it was possible to program patches on the VST version (that I don't have, but looks great) and then load them in the hardware module, turning the SR into a sort of DSP box... dreaming, I know, I've been like that since I read the wavestation VST can load patches from the hw, but not the other way around...

See you soon,

T

why not just use an editor? the interface wont be as good since all the wavestation editors were made a long time ago but tis more or less the same.i bought a wavestation sr recently (they are super-cheap on ebay) and indeed its a lovely sounding machine, quite an elegant sound - only been through the presets though, need to get an editor for it. i dont think the vst version would sound as nice though, since a big part of its sound is in the effects, which i assume would be pretty shitty in the vst version.
i also own prowave, but ive been neglecting it recently, i find it can overpower a track quite easily, but its prob just me. need to try it in the modular.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:42 am

Get the upgrade, the new filters are awesome. The SSM is beautiful and powerful, the Moog Filter is a seriously buzzy sub shakin' FAT BASTARD.

I am struggling with the Modular a little still, but this is my way to learn this great inclusion, and to be able to add Flexor, and SpaceF stuff, is like sticking a kid in a candy store. I can't sleep, and wake up with the project window in my head !!

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:12 am

mr. prawn wrote:
why not just use an editor?

Yes, I use WS Editor to program sounds on the Wavestation SR- the graphics are not so good, but bit by bit, it does its job... It's just that if you load the editor, it'll take the MIDI port, and then the sequencer won't be able to address it, meaning there's a time to play, and a time to tweak. The VST version just looks awesome and is already integrated in the sequencer - would be great to program some patches on the laptop, then have the SR sing it.

BTW, there's a program called Midi Quest
http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest ... About.html
that has loads of editors for hardware, all featuring great GUIs. But the trick is that you can load these editors as VSTis into your projects - therefore embedding the external synths data in the project. For example, you'd have the Wavestation connected, audio and MIDI as usual. You load a Wavestation editor into an instrument track, tell it where to find the instrument, and voila, you can play and edit your hardware as if it was a regular plug-in, then save any patches inside the computer, inside the project.

It's still a bit expensive, though... You can download specific editors to use with the demo, but there is no VST functionality until you buy the full version...

Cheers,

T

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:10 am

Thanks again Tau for a shitload of great information.

I used your examples in PW Mod 1_2, and am having a great time. But I don't think that this will be a feasible set-up for live work.

Hopefully it will work with one configuration that saves the presets in Modular, and loads them quickly.

I shall keep you posted.

BTW your rack lid came off. ???!@@!@

A simple tape would have worked, but I sealed the latches w/ 6mm PVC electrical. It should be fine, sorry 4 the delay. ETA 10 /23.

Abrigado,

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:25 am

I am having difficulty with the sound. All I hear is the original Prowave patch, and even though it is named after the SSM LP filter, it defaults to the CEM.

In Modular I seem to not have the filter choices of 1_2.

The Tempo All-Pass SF has 2 outpus that are normally routed to the 2 audio outs. I only see the single Prowave green ext. jack. I tried using the left, the right, and even went to the 2 Audio outs above in the JPEG. Notta !!

This patch is one I stole from that Assaf guy, whoever he is. It is the SeaSynth, which I love severely. I wish to see how this would work w/ PW 1_2.

Is it possible? If not no biggie, as I am layering SeaSynth w/ my ARP String Ensemble library. It sounds so Vintage, yet so new. The Hybrid / Analog thing.

Thanks 4 Any Help While I continue Fumbling Around.

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:02 am

scope4live wrote: In Modular I seem to not have the filter choices of 1_2.

The Tempo All-Pass SF has 2 outpus that are normally routed to the 2 audio outs. I only see the single Prowave green ext. jack. I tried using the left, the right, and even went to the 2 Audio outs above in the JPEG. Notta !!

First up: The Pro-Wave Modular should also be v.1.2 - check if you have copied this module to the ModularII Modules folder. If you can't get the new filters, it's probably because you're loading the older version.

Second: The EXT in is mono, so you can route only one of the tempo delay outs into the pro-wave. What you could do, to maintain that stereo effect, is to route the out of the MF-Swiss Knife filter into EXT, then, you can bring Pro-Wave's LR outs into the Chorus module, and use the tempo delays in stereo.
You could also mix the output of Pro-Wave with the output of the Flexor delays before the modular outputs, and create a paralell chain with Pro-Wave and flexor patch, mixing only at the very end. It should sound pretty different...

Finally, I'm not sure either if this is the best setup for live use - I use this mainly to create sounds in the studio, so I have a lot of time to switch settings and mouse around... I will be going live a lot more as soon as I can get my magma working, and then I'll be asking for tips! I have also been trying out the SubMod host, but I'm still unsure as to how to load presets in realtime. As you know, you can make one of these patches inside the SubModDevz Mod window and save it as a device - maybe it'll help to load your creations fast!

All the best, and good luck with your discoveries!

T

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:27 am

I am continuing to embarrass myself.

mr. prawn · Post by **mr. prawn** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:14 pm

Tau wrote:
mr. prawn wrote:
why not just use an editor?
Yes, I use WS Editor to program sounds on the Wavestation SR- the graphics are not so good, but bit by bit, it does its job... It's just that if you load the editor, it'll take the MIDI port, and then the sequencer won't be able to address it, meaning there's a time to play, and a time to tweak. The VST version just looks awesome and is already integrated in the sequencer - would be great to program some patches on the laptop, then have the SR sing it.

BTW, there's a program called Midi Quest
http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest ... About.html
that has loads of editors for hardware, all featuring great GUIs. But the trick is that you can load these editors as VSTis into your projects - therefore embedding the external synths data in the project. For example, you'd have the Wavestation connected, audio and MIDI as usual. You load a Wavestation editor into an instrument track, tell it where to find the instrument, and voila, you can play and edit your hardware as if it was a regular plug-in, then save any patches inside the computer, inside the project.

It's still a bit expensive, though... You can download specific editors to use with the demo, but there is no VST functionality until you buy the full version...

Cheers,

T

wow i didnt know that about the ws editor, that kind of ruins it for me, and i was about to get it...ill have to look at midiquest - tis expensive, i wish they would let you just buy a specific editor and charge less, but whatever, i guess if i buy more h/w in the future ill already have an editor..cheers for the advice

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:41 pm

That's the problem with XP and MIDI, as the drvers are not multi-client, only one app can access a port at a time - either the sequencer or the editor. The same happens with the klangbox, and the BitStream 3X, etc... That's why MidiQuest is so cool, as you can just drop a panel in the vsti slot, and tweak along!

Funny, but I read that CME keyboard controllers don't have this problem, as they say the unit can be configured via the soft editor without losing connection to the app, but I can't confirm that.

Totally agree that MidiQuest should be priced accordingly to the number of editors you need, but it seems like an extraordinary product - especially for the VST integration, but you can't try that until you pay for the full version. Every once in a whle I consider buying it, as I do have a lot of hardware lying around, from the digital age of no-knobs

some Korg, and Yamaha...

By the way, has anybody tried Brainspawn's forte? It's a VST/VSTi host and rack, very configurable in terms of MIDI routing and some audio too, if I'm not mistaken. It's the brains behind the Neko and Miko workstations... Why am I asking? Well, because if you can "vst" your hardware, and "vst" your scope synths (there has been some breakthrough on XTC, as I've read in another thread), then you can load, in one step in forte, a complete set of scope synths, with the correct presets, your patches for the hardware, the effects and all MIDI and audio routing... It does sound too good to be true, but I was wondering if it could be good and true!

I tried the demo for forte once, I remember I was disappointed about something, but i can't remember what, I know it had to do with Live and Rewire... Maybe I'll re-install it to check again, but I'd like to know if anybody's tried it yet, and how they use it. I use Live, mainly, and I'd like to have it play some audio tracks, but mostly MIDI, and have the soft synths outside it, so I can load projects faster - like I do in sfp, except that a project takes so long to load, you have to plan your set / session really well with the devices and polyphony that you need, etc... If a forte project could load the xtc'ed scope synths in one go faster than sfp... could be nice.

T

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:42 am

Multiclient MIDI drivers are much like Multiclient ASIO drivers. Many products don't come with them, and many applications don't support them. However some do, and when you use a company's own software with its own products you often gain access to this easier (CME software using a CME driver at the same time as another app for example).

Overall though you're correct, windows device drivers often are rather selfish, and there's no Core Midi/Audio layer in between to handle advanced routing.