Software compressors

AndreD · Post by **AndreD** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:21 am

On 2004-02-16 16:48, rodos1979 wrote:
Hello!

I am now downloading the freeware SFP and VST plugins that you ve suggested. I ll try them out to see how they perform and let you know my impressions.

...Now, as far as the quality of stock SFP plug-ins is concerned... I agree that they could be more less OK for background tracks...They certainly are no worse (but no better either) than stock SX plugins!
The only stock SFP plugin that stands out to my opinion (it is almost the ONLY ONE I use) is PEQ4. I sometimes use the E-Reflector too and more rarely the delays... But the rest of the stock SFP plugins, I dont use them. I dont use the synths either. I am not a synth guy anyway, but if I want synths I use my Korg Karma.

...Actually, I am going to open now a new thread/poll about which stock SFP plugins you people find useful...

are you never using the "stock" modulation-fx like masterchorus or ssb phaser?
to my ears, they sound superb...

best,
andre

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:54 am

Personally I still use Logic PC. I use a mixture of software/SFP/hardware compression on my mixes.

For software (vst/dx) compressors I use:
TC Compressor/DeEssor
-compressor that is capable with up to extreme limiting and has an internal sidechain with bandpass. Used on most of my main beats & breaks (dnb)
Waves Renessiance Comp.
-Warm sounding and can be driven quite hot but I've noticed it loses a lot of the top end on drums that i want to keep crisp. Use on kicks & basses, some leads and perhaps the odd vocal (I use mostly vocal snippits)
Logic Silver Compressor
-RedMuze turned me onto this one instead of the larger regular "Compressor". You must leave yourself plenty of headroom on the channel before the silver comp. because it only has threshold/ratio/attack/release and no internal gain structure. I use it on most things that I want to level in the mix but not 'color' because its VERY cpu friendly

For SFP (Pulsar) compression I use:
Orbitone Impressor Bundle
-The full stereo impressor with sidechain I use across my main break or kick/snare almost *always* as its very tunable and has a good drive to it. The impressor light I've found useful in many situations on pads/leads and things that I want fast easy control on.
Vinco
-My most used & abused SFP compressor, bit slower than impressor but very warm sounding and it likes lots of gain (soft clip)! Basses/leads/pads/drums/sub
D-Comp compressor
-Used occasionally when I've got more than 2-3 Vinco's in a project. In prefer to vary the hardware & software that I use to process so that I don't impart the same 'color' to everything in the mix.
Stereo Compressor & Mono Compressor
-Stock SFP is simple and easy to dial in. Often used in a similar way to Logic's Silver Compressor as its very dsp friendly. Also the most dsp friendly compressor that has a sidechain input, making it quite easy to tune it for dessing or to make things 'pump' off of a different audio channel (for 'House' style pump off the kick etc).

Hardware:
Currently only have a few RNC compressors, which are great and super fast, wonderful sounding tools. I want a few options here though!

[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2004-02-17 05:55 ]

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:44 am

urination into our communal corn flakes?

That's great. Can I use that line in my next song

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:43 am

On 2004-02-16 13:32, braincell wrote:
...Wasn't Waldorf also protected by the exact same German bankruptcy laws that are to supposedly geared to help companies in such a favorable way? ...

sorry for the OT response, but you picked an excellent example (imho, as a non expert on economics) what that law is about:

it does not protect the company, it protects the people behind it.
Simplyfied, Frank Hund would hardly be able to do any business again without that law.

Obviously the people at Waldorf aren't interested in continuing the brand, but they are free to do other business again after the case is closed.

Considering stock SFP stuff I agree with Andre on the FX part, but I still do like the UKnow007 a lot.
It explains a lot of the success of the real hardware to me

cheers, Tom

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:59 am

Mr. Cell..

I don't know how anyone could call Prisma or Lightwave "crappy". Even the humble Miniscope... ever tried comparing it to Model E, not a cheap native version by any means, but surely something you could legitimately call "crappy". As for your point about 'not sounding as good as hardware synths' - sorry but I think you're full of shit.

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:20 am

I think the big diference about these over emphasized questions just could clearly be discerned after someone's got proper monitoring environment.

mine's not so good at all

But Model E (and almost all other non XTC VST'is) I got they're not even installed now on my pc, tho I also think ANY device/tool can be usefull for some task and just regarding Ted Flechter "if it sounds good, then it's good"

...and, yes!, I do use many "stock" tools

[ This Message was edited by: zezappa on 2004-02-17 10:23 ]

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:53 pm

On 2004-02-17 07:44, krizrox wrote:
urination into our communal corn flakes?

That's great. Can I use that line in my next song

No problem, if you hook me up with 1% royalty...

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:12 pm

Keep posting braincell, some of us arent hurt or intimidated by frank evaluation of quality. There are some stock effects and softsynths that I use now and then, especially the sideband modulation effects - but honestly, I dont consider the free softsynths comparable to a real analog hardware synth, either. I guess I must be full of shit too. I remember asking around the cubase usenet group if there was a QUALITY vocal harmonizer effect, people were not impressed that I implied (more than implied actually

) that VoiceMachine is nothing but a toy that distorts the original signal and is in no way comparable to say, a Digitech VC5. It's not meant as an insult, any more than saying 8-bit recording doesnt sound as natural as 16-bit recording. If there is no difference in quality, why would you buy a minimax or pro-one or vinco? Maybe some discussion of what a real quality hardware synth is would be appropriate - are you talking about a Yamaha DX27 or a Yamaha CS-80? A Korg MS2000 or a Korg MS20? If you want, the stock synths on the creamware card sound easily comparible to a DX27 or MS2000, or even a korg triton's synth-type sounds!

As far as the actual topic of the thread goes, I find both the Vinco and UAD compressors work nicely, better than the stock compressors (or anything that cubase comes with). 'Working well' to me, in terms of compressors, is 'not distorting the original signal'. Some signal coloration may be acceptable. Since I already have a UAD, I dont see the point in buying a vinco, I am fussy enough to tell the diff between vinco/uad and a lower-class compressor, but not enough to really worry about the diff between Vinco and UAD. Before I bother getting Vinco, I need better monitor speakers to hear the difference.

PS I think a better implementation of demos would be 'work for 2 minutes at a time'. That way you can get a better idea of how the program works in different situations, instead of hoping that your ability to discern quality will be at its full potential for that one hour.

[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2004-02-17 14:56 ]

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:39 pm

Don't worry Len, he won't stop posting, even if we asked him to. And I don't think anyone wishes that at all, but perhaps a "the glass is half full" attitude, even if only for 20-30 percent of the time.

Perpetual negativity will draw out stronger responses from the rest of us. My motto says if you post here, and the logic is crap, it's my job to let you know...

In some sick way I enjoy the interchange.

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:35 am

I don't think anyone here balks at opinion, even if its an occasional negative aspersion cast towards one of our topics. Its just that *cell seems to fall prey all to often of lumping things into binary categories without any further information on why something isn't liked...ie, if it doesn't fit into category "A" then its shit!

A few posts like this are easy to digest, but when its repeated to the point where his category "B" 'opinions' are 100% predictable and outweigh category "A" 50:1 then I'm not sure how much 'information' he is conveying. It becomes a bit like the elitist musical COLLECTOR who in his musical obscurity who has seemingly heard *everything* but its all crap...nothing will ever be as good again as 1 or 2 early works by some other Mister Obscure.

At the same time I would never claim to like all or even most music that floats through our more & more disposable culture these days...but I do prefer to separate things into varying categories of how well it befits my tastes & varying moods instead of yes/no.

I'm sure there's more to braincell than is conveyed through his posts here, I just wonder if the small textbox in the forums is limiting his expression so I have to call him on it.

[edit:grammer for clarity]

[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2004-02-18 09:23 ]

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:48 am

Grouchy was always my favourite smurf

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:17 pm

Hello!

On 2004-02-17 03:21, Andre Dupke wrote:

are you never using the "stock" modulation-fx like masterchorus or ssb phaser?
to my ears, they sound superb...

- I dont use them because I do not need this kind of effects for my music

BTW, congratulations for your master comp device. I really like it

... Guys, I kindly ask you not to fight about creamware at my threads, please?

Braincell has the right to express his ideas... Although, I personally dont agree with him in some/many of his points, I see no use of you getting offensive to him personally. Especially, when he wasnt offensive to you personally.

Peace to all!

Afterall, from all the internet forums that I take part in, PlanetZ has always been and will always be the most democratic and polite place to chat, with the most polite and helpful people around

So, back to my topic... From what most people said, I think Vinco might be the way to go for me... Although, I was not impressed by it when I demoed it...Mmm, I look if I can get a second-hand one cheaper...

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:26 pm

On 2004-02-18 04:48, Michu wrote:
Grouchy was always my favourite smurf

lol

Eric Dahlberg · Post by **Eric Dahlberg** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:19 am

I've heard that running the stock CW synths at 96k puts them on the same level as Minimax, has anyone else noticed this? It might make sense if this is the case, after all isn't one of the reasons Minimax is supposed to sound so good because of internal oversampling?

Back on topic, I'm still standing by the UAD-1 compressors above all others, the 1176 & LA2A sound extremely smooth & buttery yet in completely different ways from one another (surprisngly, the new Fairchild hasn't really done it for me so far). I'll have to try Vinco for mastering some time, that might have some influence on my opinion of it.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:52 am

To Liquid

I use a Waldorf Micro Q, Nord Lead, and Yamaha VLM70.

I apologize for calling the CW stock synths crappy. I should have said not acceptable to me personally. I love to play with them but normally they do not end up in my mix.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:55 pm

BC:
I use a Korg Trinity, DW-8000, Roland SH-101, and an EMU vintage keys module. Maybe using language like 'sucks' and 'toy' is going over the top to some people. Probably better to say something is higher or lower quality, or more or less usable, after establishing what quality refers to. When John Lennon sings "everybody's got one", at the end of the I Am The Walrus, he may be referring to opinions. Cheers everyone.

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:07 pm

On 2004-02-19 11:52, braincell wrote:
I apologize for calling the CW stock synths crappy. I should have said not acceptable to me personally. I love to play with them but normally they do not end up in my mix.

The fact that you have the stones to acknowledge that, is pretty damn cool in my book.

Rodos, I think it's safe to assume that the Vinco will be a good buy. Try eBay.de, sometimes people get rid of them for cheap. I picked up the Pro-One that way.

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:48 pm

Thank you!

I ll have a look there

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:01 pm

On 2004-02-19 00:19, Eric Dahlberg wrote:
I've heard that running the stock CW synths at 96k puts them on the same level as Minimax, has anyone else noticed this? It might make sense if this is the case, after all isn't one of the reasons Minimax is supposed to sound so good because of internal oversampling?

Dunno about MiniMax's oversampling, though it might explain the rumored glitches of Minimax at 96kHz. I didn't have the Minimax when I was playing around with 96kHz. But it's worth revisiting.

But I can verify that the level of noticable detail and motion of stock synths is vastly improved using 96kHz. Of course you effectively halve your DSPs in the process.

Sam

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:51 pm

I just tried it out. 96khz really makes a difference! Clarity and smoothness is improved, it doesnt sound distorted in the midrange - I was switching between 48 and 96 and it's like the difference between tape and CD. It's not THAT big a change - but some annoying edges to the notes that you tend to hear at 48 are gone at 96. Those sounds I would actually use more in my own mixes - I need more DSP power now... Also my current setup uses 44/48 and I'd have to switch back and forth between different configurations - it would be ideal if you could selectively set higher khz internally on stock synths, if that is what sets the Minimax etc apart from the stock synths.

[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2004-02-20 21:31 ]