How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?

[garyb]

no bios changes beyond the v7 pdf....

i do as few teaks as possible, and have produced soooo many click-free systems...

[valis]

I can't help noticing though, that the systems you are listing are all from an area, where I also always was able to make a system click free.

The reason these systems are from a similar era (though I disagree somewhat as the AM3+ socket and 1155 socket aren't THAT old) is because 1) I have them already when it comes time to move Scope cards around and 2) as we have all noted PCI slots are getting harder & harder to come by. I'd rather focus a new system around modern tech and utilize my Scope PCI cards where they are best suited. If I absolutely had to have an Intel 9/10 generation system with Scope I'd have taken Dante's cause up for an Xite full force

[garyb]

yes, the socket 1155 era does not work. i have been saying that for some time. before that, and after that have been very few problems.

[dante]

Yeah, mines an LGA 1151 and prior to that an LGA 1150

[petal]

no bios changes beyond the v7 pdf....

i do as few teaks as possible, and have produced soooo many click-free systems...

That approach have been tried and tested on two systems here, and it has unfortunately not produced click-free systems.

Both systems has been minimal, both on the hardware side and on the software side. Windows 10 virgin as sweet 16. No extra software than what is needed to make SCOPE work and run tests.

V7 pdf in hand and then move on from there. It is not producing a click free system here.

[garyb]

then there is something in the system that is stealing CPU cycles. it is not the Scope driver, specifically.
it could also be a vst plugin.

i recognize that there are people such as yourself who have this problem, but most do not.

Scope is sensitive to greedy apps(plugins or whatever). a click or pop means that Windows was not able to keep up with the audio stream. since Scope is realtime(i keep saying this), it cannot wait for the CPU to be ready for or with data. pops and clicks are missing data, data lost in transfer. clock issues also produce missing data.

[valis]

And saying 'brand X soundcard works fine' isn't a valid comparison as Scope is relying on the host system for more than just shuffling ASIO data between the host and Scope system, which is why GaryB is stressing something stealing cycles being so important. And that's why I have given a workflow to 'build up' a system in stages and test things at each point, so it's easier to isolate exactly what's at fault in our complex software and hardware ecosystems.

Waiting until facebook videos play audio, VPN's are working for 'late night habits', torrenting seeds are going and audio and video software is all installed to start troubleshooting is basically saying you want to make a cocktail out of half of the ingredients the bar stocks before figuring out which double malt really suits you best.

[dante]

I just remembered WiFi caused clicks and pops on my previous system - not so much on new one. But yeah try disabling.

[petal]

Thanks Dante, but the Asus H370-plus doesn't have Wifi.

Gary: I'm open to any suggestions at this point. I wonder what that something could be? I only have Windows 10, Scope 7 and Ableton 10 installed. Nothing else. All is newly installed (and updated) on a single partioned NVMe/SSD/HDD (I've tried all three) not using dualboot.
My test project has gone from a simple wave file looping to 35+ VSTi's full CPU load projects. It makes now difference.
After clicks have been detected I optimize BIOS and Windows using the guidelines provided by SonicCore. Still getting clicks.
I know that Scope is sensitive. I've been using both the PCI cards for 18 years and the Xite for 8 years in several different builds. I've always been able to make it work, until now.
The new piece in the puzzle is Windows 10.

Valis: I only mentioned the Elektron ASIO driver as working to inform that the computer is capable. I know that Scope is different though.
I'm pretty sure I am following your method and "building up" the system in stages. I have only installed the bare essentials to actually be able to test the system. Which is where I am now.
There are no late night habits being served on my music installations - I whish the solution was that simple, but I'm sure the cocktail is pure

I bought a new 750W Corsair PSU yesterday. It was the last piece of hardware that had not been tried shifted out. The new PSU made no difference.

At this point I'm pretty sure it is not a hardware problem, unless it's the PCI cards or the XITE, but it seems unlikely that they would both produce the same type of random clicks.
You tell me that Windows 10 is supposed to be easy, but for some reason I can't make it work. What could I have missed in Windows 10, that wouldn't be fixed by the guidelines provided by SonicCore and the recommendations in this and other similar threads?

[valis]

petal, I hope my posts don't seem pedantic or overly vitriolic. It's hard for us to know what happens on the other end of an internet line so we're just being as informative as possible.

With your current system are you only using Xite?

[petal]

Valis I understand that it is difficult to guide and help people over the internet. I'm just happy that there actually is a place where I can find help

In my current system (and the old one) I have both the PCI cards and the Xite installed, but I have tested both systems with only the Xite installed and no PCI-cards in the systems.

AI-bot, I havn't tried running Ableton with the Wave driver, but will check it out.
I wanted to test with Cubase as well, but unfortunately Steinbergs eLincenser software is fucked I think, so I can't make it work atm so I can test it.
That said, the Scope ASIO driver is indeed the center of my attention. I'm not saying that it is flawed, but everything points at that bottleneck, as the point where the clicks are introduced.

I'm not getting a lot of clicks, but the system is not click free.

[valis]

Let's troubleshoot just Xite or PCI before worrying about getting everything working. Which would you choose?

[petal]

OK - Let's focus on the XITE then - I'll put the PCI cards in the even older 875k system I have. It was the last system I had that was click free, but I never ran windows 10 on it, so that will be interesting to see if that will work.

[valis]

Right. Now we also shouldn't have to worry about PCI overflows as a cause either. Is the Xite sharing with anything, physically or address range wise?

[dante]

I wanted to test with Cubase as well, but unfortunately Steinbergs eLincenser software is fucked I think, so I can't make it work atm so I can test it.

Do Steinburg have a demo version u can test that doesn’t need eLicense ?

[petal]

Dante: Good idea! Ill find a few demo's of DAWs and check those as well.

Valis, I've now removed the PCI-cards from the new build and the conflicts/sharing and the IRQs now lok like this:

Conflicts-Sharing ASUS H370 only XITE no SCOPE PCI-cards.png (33.85 KiB) Viewed 23757 times

IRQs ASUS H370 only XITE no SCOPE PCI-cards.png (24.43 KiB) Viewed 23757 times

[valis]

Ok, DPC Latency tests both at idle then under >50% cpu load? With Xite running btw.
Plus maybe a screenshot of your Scope project with DSP Meter, sync & samplerate settings shown.

[valis]

Also of course make sure this is done:

Screenshot 2020-05-09 14.46.55.png (256.93 KiB) Viewed 26796 times

Screenshot 2020-05-09 14.46.59.png (37.49 KiB) Viewed 26796 times

Screenshot 2020-05-09 14.47.03.png (23.51 KiB) Viewed 26796 times

Screenshot 2020-05-09 14.44.33.png (20.55 KiB) Viewed 26796 times

I am sure you know this, but covering it for others later who may read this thread, and just to make sure in your case

[petal]

Yes - The "basic" optimization on my music installations have evolved into these steps - Maybe too much, once we figure out what is causing the clicks - But this is where my music installations are here today.

The guides are easy to follow without too much text:

1. SonicCore optimzation PDF

2. Steinbergs checklist: Windows 10: How to set-up and optimize a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW)
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... tation-DAW

3. 7 Tips for Optimizing Your Windows 10 Computer for Audio
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/pr ... -for-audio

4. And Shutup Windows
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
(recommended settings - disable Onedrive though, which is uninstalled anyways)

I can do a clean install without applying the steps above, if you'd rather have that as the starting point for this process?

[garyb]

setting power to "high performance" is not really the answer. i use "balanced" and then i disable usb selective suspend and set the minimum and maximum cpu use at maximum. in addition, link state power management is set to "off" in the PCI Express menu.

shutup 10 is not something i would use. all those settings are available in Windows settings. i do not know how a program like that interacts with the computer during use.

all those things in the the steinberg and BH photo pages that you use are more or less what there is to do, but most are redundant.

the fact that those pages exist, illustrates that plenty of other people that did not have Scope cards have had win10 issues.