SpaceF FP106 mixer questions...

[RP_001]

I mostly use 1x fp106 and 1x fp104 mixers in my project. One for my scope synths, and one for drums and some vst-i stuff. I got my PCM91 chained in both AUX1's. So when i open both mixers using the P-connections everything fits perfectly in screen....... Really awesome for having everything on one screen, and controlling/mixing everything there.... Nice One!!

Only problem is, when i open up both mixers my CPU can hardly handle it. What is a recommended videocard/cpu/mb to run smoothly ?? Is changing a videocard enough, or is this something cpu/ram related??

Also, Is there any benefit from using the REC outputs of the mixer, instead of the Master OUT_LR ?? Im recording in cubase (learning vdat atm...).

And finally... I used a lot of sidechaining recently. Right now im using a couple of vinco's on the bass/pads/fx/etc, with the kick as input.... Is it somehow possible to use only one device/compressor with the kick as input, routed to every channels that needs sidechain?? Or should every channel be routed to a bus , and then sidechain there??

Any suggestions would be welcome

Cheers!

P4C800Dlx 3.0ghz intel processor
1.5 gig Kingston Ram
Old Gforce2 videocard if im right..

[dawman]

Totally agree with you on FP mixers and the P I/O's.
I have no idea what you could do about the CPU spike?
I have a suggestion though for your SideChaining tasks.
Shroomz & Sharc both have some great line mixers that can be used for sub mixing, depending on how many channels you need.
For 16 + go with Sharc's and for 8-10 w/ Shroomz mixer, or any other mixer for that matter.

MB4 II is an excellent choice also for any of these chores, but this was a low DSP, fast explanation of the SideChaining.

PCM91 sharing AUX's..............Bloody, Lucky, You...

[nightscope]

CompSat in conjunction with the Mod inputs A thro H.

ns

[dawman]

That's a great idea Nightscope.

Please explain, as I tried that first but wasn't sure about the filter settings in the channels, etc.
I would love to try that ......tonight.
And yes I am a Pendajo so jpeg's are much appreciated.

[RP_001]

@Jimmy

Excellent tip !! I think i might have the octamix somewhere.

@Nightscope

Yes please explain

I thought i read somewhere that sidechaining using the Mod inputs was possible somehow..

[nightscope]

Please explain

You must be joking!! I'm a lot better at doing than explaining.

I haven't done this for a few months. So, using kick as example. Route kick to any one of A-C mod inputs in FP. Not D-H as I erroneously suggested. Say, A. Activate that mod input in the mod page, CC bottom left of mixer. Various options there for each FP track. If the bass to be ducked is on, say, FP mono 1 select A for that track. Whack the gain up on the mod input for FP track 1. Insert a CompSat on FP mono 1 with Mod sidechain as source. Start fiddling. For stereo tracks SFilter is required with 2 CompSats in the two slots.

Much better idea is to go to Mehdi's site. Click on Products then SpaceF Mixers and stick "sidechain" in the search box.

When & if you get things humming along, especially with the stereo tracks, save a CompSat/SFilter preset.

ns

[dawman]

That's what I was missing with these mixers.....
I thank you reminding me of that A-H trick.
I could still use the 2 x 3 LFO Device's and a Pair of Comp Sat's......
I'm trying out now...

[nightscope]

I'm trying out now...

OK. A-C only. I think.

ns

[dawman]

I'll have to change all of my sub preset lists around a little and make A-B for CompSat.
C/D/E/F/G/H is just enough to run 2 x 3LFO devices.
Francis Harmany's gonna love this one, if he ain't already using it.

I just recently started using this in a live venue to mix the VDAT Kick with the live Bassist and my always over powering SE-1X synth bass. I even Sidechained the Lead vocals over the cymbal tracks and was shocked at how effective SideChaining is.

I think DAS was making a Frequency controllable SideChaining Gate device, I hope we see it when SC gets going again. That would have been useful for the cymbal trick I was doing, which worked, but nowhere near as noticable as the Kick drum over Basses was.

[spacef]

Hello guys,

Sidechaining: you explained it already, I have nothing to add
You can also take a signal from one of individual output and route it back to one of the mod inputs (this is possible in FP106 C only at the moment because they have feedback modules inside just for this, i should put them in the 104 too....)

CPU load: mmm, may be try to press the "Hide" button to hide the vu-meters (bottom-right, vu meter section). It removes some constraint on the pci bus which also manages graphic information exchange between the PC and Scope. Hiding the vu meter allows to gain some ressources and to get rif of possible "crackles" in the sound (due to a lot of vu meters updating at the same time).
Opening 2 FP mixers shouldn't be a problem, eventhough on my previous pc, i felt a slow down.
Now I use a core2duo 3Ghz and it rocks for this kind of problems. On my old pc (p4 2.5 ghz) i couldn't play LBH at all, now it is as if it was a small synth in terms of "feeling of the graphic load". I am not sure if the graphic card or ram plays a role, but in my current pc, only scope uses the PCI connection, all other things are sata, or pci-16x for the graphic card, so pci-bus is for scope only (no hard disk data exchange).

Rec Channel: By using the Rec Channel Source menu, you can send any FP mixer channel to be recorded, pre-or-post pan/effects, and especially take advantage of several options to record Mono channels. Rec channel is a time saver that allows to make connection to you asio destination once only, and then change it with a menu instead of manually. I did this after years of recabling asio dests, and being really fed up doing this all the time, as i generally record no more than 2 asio tracks at once... So i've put the various recording "scenarios" inside the mixer, to save my time by not reconnecting things when i change the recorded source.
For example, you play guitar, bass etc, and you play it with inserts in the FP mixer. With the rec channel, you can record the guitar dry (from inputs) or after the inserts. You can also record 2 mono channels at once (for pseudo-stereo, or if you play+sing at the same time, or if you have a friend at home playing with you etc)....
You can also record the bus pre/post, or only the aux effects, or only the mix without the aux effects, and other options.
Especially, I like to record the master stereo track "pre-master effect" where I have a FAT Insert/Lim Fat and compressor for mastering. So i record the stereo mix without those effects, which allow to refine them later if needed. There is also an insert that can be used to insert a spectral analyzer, or anything else to be recorded like a limiter/compressor (but i never use this function myself).
There is only 1 rec-channel output, that's the only problem i found so far , but then you can also use the individual outputs if you record more than 2 asio channels at the same time. at least the rec-channel will avoid recabling the 2 first asio inputs...

Any question ?

[spacef]

I'm trying out now...

OK. A-C only. I think.

ns

A to H should work too .... any mod input normally goes to any filter/insert destination to be used as modulator or sidechaine signal.... (i can't confirm this before the week end).

[RP_001]

A lot of usefull information, thanks guys!

@SpaceF

As far as the "graphics" concerned; I already tried hiding the meters, but this doesnt help...
Metering this way is of no use unfortunately. Great chance my PC is just too old for this.. I will upgrade in months though... Opening up the FP106 adds 25/30% CPU, and metering becomes quite impossible; it's too slow...

I will try out the REC output. So i can just change cabels from Master Out LR to REC channels, and choose which "type" i want to record from the scrolldown menu?? I was already wondering how i could for example record only the wet reverb channel.. I will do some experimenting soon...

Thanks again!

[spacef]

do you have "hardware graphic acceleration" turned on in your graphic card settings ?
it slows down the graphics of scope to the point it is not usable anymore, so it must be off.

[garyb]

i still have it on. i think that's old info, fromn the win98 days, but it's worth a try....

[spacef]

hi gary,
in fact i still had this ocasionnally on P4/XP due to open gl etc (games or 3d softwares)...
it doesn't happen in multicore and recent graph cards though, or i haven't noticed it.

RP100, here is a pic for side chaining on 106C, it works on any modulation input (A to H)
don't forget to put the mod-gain to max in the mod inputs settings.

[RP_001]

Turning the hardware acceleration off did not solve it, it just became worse.. so no real difference there...

Thanks for explaining the compsat sidechaining.. I will do some experimenting this weekend..

[spacef]

normally it should be off, then restart scope, but if it is worse.... may be it is something with the graphic card..
If it slows down just because you open 2 panels, and comes back at normal speed when you close them, then it is definitely an indication that the computer is too slow or aging (a brand new pc is an investment, because you have to rebuy everything from mother board to ram, cpu, graph card etc, but by recycling your hard drives and whatever is still useable in a new motherboard, then it is cheap. I mean my own computer costed less than 600 euros vat included and it should be cheaper now for something powerful with 4gb of ram and 512 mb graphic cards. Now for 300/400 it should be doable (you can recycle the computer case, the hard drives etc).
The difference in performance between a pentium 4 and a core2duo is huge, especially in handling large device panels and a lot of "real time updated" graphics such as vu meter. Sorry to cite again this exemple, but on my pentium4, i could simply not move LBH VIII: very slow interface, obligation to close the panel because of the 1200 parameters that drive pentium4 crazy etc etc (especially when audio tracks, that take the pci bus too, sharing with graphics=bottlenecks).
Now it is night and day.
It could be something else too, but i don't know what.

[dawman]

Brotha' Man Medhi,

I have tried the CompSat B's because of the filter on the inputs.
I am showing everything totally MIDI controllable and audio is present.
I only had to change the channel number on the CompSat loaded in Ch. #1 from 2 to 1, as both instances of CompSat loaded up with slot number 2, but other than that everything is flawless.

My Analog synth in the low end is just so overpowering, that I must use the actual cabinets I use during a live gig because all of the nearfields and headphones cannot accurately reproduce these fierce freaquencies and SPL's.
I thought by using the CompSat's as a sidechaining device, that I could have the low notes on the B2003 stand out more when doing this, but I am at a loss as when I am playing the synth through the stereo channel 10, I am not sure how I am suppose to lower those frequencies when I play the B2003 simultaneously?

I have also set the Mods in the SE-1X channel to match the ones in the B2003's channels, but I am not hearing the Analog synth ducking out.

What am I doing wrong?

BTW this is an awesome tip. How would anyone figure on loading a stereo compressor into a mono channel to achieve sidechaining without cluttering up the project window ...? Brilliant.

I have started loading other stereo effects into the mono effects folders that might work too.
The DAS SC Gate w/ the key filters will be tried if I get this working.

CiaoMein,

[spacef]

Brotha' Man Medhi,
I thought by using the CompSat's as a sidechaining device, that I could have the low notes on the B2003 stand out more when doing this, but I am at a loss as when I am playing the synth through the stereo channel 10, I am not sure how I am suppose to lower those frequencies when I play the B2003 simultaneously?
I have also set the Mods in the SE-1X channel to match the ones in the B2003's channels, but I am not hearing the Analog synth ducking out.

I don't think your are doing anything wrong, just that my sidechainable devices can't work in stereo, because it would need an insert (and insert slot) with 4 inputs, or more.
Also, I don't have the dynamic routing that Vinco (or das) has, but I was told it does not save / restore connections correctly when reloading projects so i really prefer not to use it (i haven't tried that yet, i mean i haven't checked for myself this project reload thing or if there is something to do to improve it, but if something doesn't restore in project (not even speaking of presets), then it just cannot be in a spacef device anymore). It could be fixed in scope 5 so that could be used on my devs in the future. for the moment, they are very buzy at SC and i don't want to disturb because the faster they release what they have to release, the better. So I think that, for stereo sidechaining, Vinco and devices with this dynamic sidechain selector is all that is going to be available at the moment.

The alternative, which will not compress, but remove some bass freqs, is to activate the stereo filter to Highpass (HP): i see in your picture that it is not used. But it will cut some bass, not duck them.
I did that device which uses midi CC (S-Filter-1) and that can be used for sidechaining, but using midi to send audio signals is like trying to cut your steak with a teaspoon.... can work, but not approriate...
Another alternative is to use a sidechainable stereo compressor before the mixer, in the project instead of an insert (and you just made me realize i don't have such a device , or at least, none i can remember of this evening that do it for sure (i mean Midi Filter II in BlackBox II, may be it can do it, as it is a standalone dual-mono dev where you can load Compsat in the slots and have audio as external modulation, but i haven't tried that yet, but if i remember the routing correctly, there is no reason not to be able to do it this way)... may be a bit cumbersome for the purpose but it adds a midi channel just for this device if needed (it has midi inputs so you can remote control it).

[spacef]

mmm... the regular Stereo Compressor of Scope has sidechain inputs too
don't ask why i never noticed before