They are super stable.
I still have 3 x Scope DP's and Gigastudio 2.54 running on a PIV 3.2 Northwood, and a P4SCT+II for years w/o a single hiccup !!
RME PCIe Soundcard > Creamware A16U ?
Here's a guy who helped invent Gigastudio and Gigapulse.
His opinion on Firewire helped me decide.
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Larry, would you let us know how the RME Fireface 800 works when you get it.
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So far, I remain disappointed in firewire audio interfaces.
I have the Fireface 400 from RME and I expected it to be great (as ALL of their other products are).
But my results with it on my Toshiba 5205-S705 have been less than impressive.
Skips, static, bursts of noise, and a stupid human interface are just some of my complaints.
However, their PCM-CIA cardbus is ROCK SOLID!!!! I love it and I can't say enough good about it.
Don't know why people are not able to make a decent Firewire interface that can compete with a PCI or PCM-CIA device... but it apparently is more difficult than the marketing arms are letting us believe.
What do I not like about the RME Fireface 400 interface? How about this:
So you want to control the level of the headphones right? And they give you a knob that can be assigned to the headphones... fair enough (even though I have to scroll through a menu to make the knob be the headphone control)
But once you assign the knob to be a headphone control, you turn the knob and only one channel changes level? WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
That's right... you have to assign EACH CHANNEL SEPARATELY to adjust the headphone level. COME ON RME!!!!!!!!!!!!! THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stupid.... just plain stupid.
As far as the static, and noises... I believe it is possible that it is a common problem with all firewire intefaces... Computers are not designed from the ground up to pay attention to the firewire device fast enough for low latency audio.
Granted... it's my opinion... but no one has shown be differently and I would have suspected that RME would have done it right... but NO!!!!
For my money, I will stick with PCI devices (from RME) and PCM-CIA devices (also from RME).
But I will use Firewire for what it was intended... hard drives and NOT low latency audio.
For what it's worth, the mic pre's on the RME are excellent... I'd use them on just about anything... very clean and uncolored... the same is true for the line level inputs.
Your mileage may vary.
Best to you!
Larry
PS Don't even get me started about USB devices... they can't even hold a candle to Firewire... let alone PCI or PCM-CIA... just a waste of our natural resources in my opinion.
Wish I would have kept my Scope card back in 2000.
_____________________________________________________________
See, even he had Scope but later went for the hardware Mixtreme boxes insted of waiting for Scope 3.1.
His opinion on Firewire helped me decide.
_____________________________________________________________
Larry, would you let us know how the RME Fireface 800 works when you get it.
_____________________________________________________________
So far, I remain disappointed in firewire audio interfaces.
I have the Fireface 400 from RME and I expected it to be great (as ALL of their other products are).
But my results with it on my Toshiba 5205-S705 have been less than impressive.
Skips, static, bursts of noise, and a stupid human interface are just some of my complaints.
However, their PCM-CIA cardbus is ROCK SOLID!!!! I love it and I can't say enough good about it.
Don't know why people are not able to make a decent Firewire interface that can compete with a PCI or PCM-CIA device... but it apparently is more difficult than the marketing arms are letting us believe.
What do I not like about the RME Fireface 400 interface? How about this:
So you want to control the level of the headphones right? And they give you a knob that can be assigned to the headphones... fair enough (even though I have to scroll through a menu to make the knob be the headphone control)
But once you assign the knob to be a headphone control, you turn the knob and only one channel changes level? WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
That's right... you have to assign EACH CHANNEL SEPARATELY to adjust the headphone level. COME ON RME!!!!!!!!!!!!! THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stupid.... just plain stupid.
As far as the static, and noises... I believe it is possible that it is a common problem with all firewire intefaces... Computers are not designed from the ground up to pay attention to the firewire device fast enough for low latency audio.
Granted... it's my opinion... but no one has shown be differently and I would have suspected that RME would have done it right... but NO!!!!
For my money, I will stick with PCI devices (from RME) and PCM-CIA devices (also from RME).
But I will use Firewire for what it was intended... hard drives and NOT low latency audio.
For what it's worth, the mic pre's on the RME are excellent... I'd use them on just about anything... very clean and uncolored... the same is true for the line level inputs.
Your mileage may vary.
Best to you!
Larry
PS Don't even get me started about USB devices... they can't even hold a candle to Firewire... let alone PCI or PCM-CIA... just a waste of our natural resources in my opinion.
Wish I would have kept my Scope card back in 2000.
_____________________________________________________________
See, even he had Scope but later went for the hardware Mixtreme boxes insted of waiting for Scope 3.1.
He's right... firewire is not ideal for critical low latency applications.
You can sometimes get good results by using a dedicated PCI firewire card for each device. But obviously this somewhat defeats the 'point' of firewire.
Things are not helped by the varying quality of firewire controller chipsets on computer motherboards, which are usually on the PCI bus and share its bandwidth.
I find it very disappointing that progress in computing is measured in clock rates or number of multiple cores, and no attention is being paid to piping all this high-speed data around the computer efficiently. Multiple buses are long overdue (yes I know this is possible with high-end workstation boards like SM, Tyan etc).
You can sometimes get good results by using a dedicated PCI firewire card for each device. But obviously this somewhat defeats the 'point' of firewire.
Things are not helped by the varying quality of firewire controller chipsets on computer motherboards, which are usually on the PCI bus and share its bandwidth.
I find it very disappointing that progress in computing is measured in clock rates or number of multiple cores, and no attention is being paid to piping all this high-speed data around the computer efficiently. Multiple buses are long overdue (yes I know this is possible with high-end workstation boards like SM, Tyan etc).
Hey, just wanted to chime in for RME!
I have a Multiface for 6 years now, and never ONE problem. No driver issues, no skipping, no static, just perfect. The drivers and software have been regularly updated to include some impressive capabilites, in terms of routing, re-routing, and signal measuring and analisys - and not a cent has been charged, ever.
It's also very well built, it survived dozens of trips and a few drops. Both PCI and PCMCIA performance are impeccable. The downsides, for me, are:
- you need an external power source
- no Express Card available for newer laptops (although it works very well with the Duel Adapter)
- no way to copy submixes in the total mix (say you have some routings and levels set for the master output and you want to duplicate those exactly to another stereo bus - you have to copy each setting individually by hand)
It's quite funny to read this discussion, because I have been considering the possibilty of trading in my Multiface for a Digiface, precisely to use the 24 ADAT ports. This because I don't have a good experience with Scope ASIO, and it's the only way I can get more than 8 chanells into scope without going analogue.
This way, wether I decide to go for a dedicated scope machine, or keep it in the main DAW with the RME, I'm always covered. Of course, The Fireface 800 seems tempting too, but it's quite expensive, and after reading this, I think I'll avoid it, and stick to a winner.
BTW, the Multiface still sellls for the same price I bought mine for 6 years ago... Even 2nd hand prices are high, and that's an indication of quality. You can find good prices for the PCI interfaces on Ebay, though.
Go for the Hammerfall, Jimmy.
I have a Multiface for 6 years now, and never ONE problem. No driver issues, no skipping, no static, just perfect. The drivers and software have been regularly updated to include some impressive capabilites, in terms of routing, re-routing, and signal measuring and analisys - and not a cent has been charged, ever.
It's also very well built, it survived dozens of trips and a few drops. Both PCI and PCMCIA performance are impeccable. The downsides, for me, are:
- you need an external power source
- no Express Card available for newer laptops (although it works very well with the Duel Adapter)
- no way to copy submixes in the total mix (say you have some routings and levels set for the master output and you want to duplicate those exactly to another stereo bus - you have to copy each setting individually by hand)
It's quite funny to read this discussion, because I have been considering the possibilty of trading in my Multiface for a Digiface, precisely to use the 24 ADAT ports. This because I don't have a good experience with Scope ASIO, and it's the only way I can get more than 8 chanells into scope without going analogue.
This way, wether I decide to go for a dedicated scope machine, or keep it in the main DAW with the RME, I'm always covered. Of course, The Fireface 800 seems tempting too, but it's quite expensive, and after reading this, I think I'll avoid it, and stick to a winner.
BTW, the Multiface still sellls for the same price I bought mine for 6 years ago... Even 2nd hand prices are high, and that's an indication of quality. You can find good prices for the PCI interfaces on Ebay, though.
Go for the Hammerfall, Jimmy.
It's a while since I sold my Multiface but as far as I remember you do NOT need to power the Multiface/Digiface if you use it with the PCI card (power is necessary when using PCMCIA).Tau wrote:The downsides, for me, are:
- you need an external power source
- no Express Card available for newer laptops (although it works very well with the Duel Adapter)
Also, since they now have released a PCIe card host, an ExpressCard version is probably not far away.