Do you do your professional mastering in SFP with, SFP plug-ins ?
(By professional I’m referring to income, not skills.)
If Yes:
What tools, functionality and plug-ins are you missing compared to other mastering solutions ?
What are you using for playback/recording ?
If No:
Same question, and what do you use ?
Kim.
_________________
<b>D&M / Timeworks</b>
http://d-media.dk
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2003-07-06 03:44 ]</font>
[poll] Professional Mastering [/poll]
1) (and most important to me) trying to get the best sounding mix possible 
2) Final Liza, Timeworks Master Comp (dx), L2 (dx) (in order of what i like more).
I have done some masters for dance music, so usually i don't need to record too much sounds. Sometimes i need to record the voices and for it i use the great Waves Renassaince Vox Compressor.
That's my little contribution
Gab
2) Final Liza, Timeworks Master Comp (dx), L2 (dx) (in order of what i like more).
I have done some masters for dance music, so usually i don't need to record too much sounds. Sometimes i need to record the voices and for it i use the great Waves Renassaince Vox Compressor.
That's my little contribution
Gab
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ChrisWerner
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany/Bavaria
- Contact:
Here is the prog. I use to analyze my songs.
Not a SFP device but very useful, very accurate, not cheap but honest.
http://www.masterpinguin.de/
_________________
Music starts where any language ends
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2003-07-11 07:03 ]</font>
Not a SFP device but very useful, very accurate, not cheap but honest.
http://www.masterpinguin.de/
_________________
Music starts where any language ends
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2003-07-11 07:03 ]</font>
On 2003-07-06 03:41, kimgr wrote:
Do you do your professional mastering in SFP with, SFP plug-ins ?
(By professional I’m referring to income, not skills.)
If Yes:
What tools, functionality and plug-ins are you missing compared to other mastering solutions ?
What are you using for playback/recording ?
If No:
Same question, and what do you use ?
Kim.
_________________
<b>D&M / Timeworks</b>
http://d-media.dk
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2003-07-06 03:44 ]</font>
Yes to your initial question.
Don't feel I'm really missing anything in regards to the next question. I use tripleDAT to record/playback.
Optimaster/PsyQ seems to provide an excellent level of quality for my purposes. I mix and master tracks for a living. Most of my clients are up-and-coming artists on limited budgets and can't afford the services of a professional mastering studio. Optimaster/PsyQ may not be the ultimate mastering solution but it does a damn fine job and after countless sessions, no one has asked for their money back yet.
But if I know you, you've got something up your sleeve and we'll be waiting eagerly to see what you come up with.
Well, I don't make my living with mastering. Just doing my own demo's and a friend of mine writes vocal arrangements for me in exchange for mastering his songs. So technically, I do have an income from mastering
Anyway, the devices I use within SFP for mastering totally depends on the music, so I'll make a list of devices that I use frequently and a list of devices I use sometimes.
Frequently:
- Timeworks Mastering Compressor Hard
- Timeworks Mastering Compressor Soft
- Vinco
- Timeworks VintagEQ
- PsyQ
Sometimes:
- Optimaster (I'm not a big fan of multiband compression and try avoiding it as much as possible)
- D-mute D-Compressor
- Softclip
- Creamware stock EQ
- Creamware stock limiter
I've no need for any aditional metering in SFP, because I already use the excellent Pinguin Audio Meter software, as already mentioned by Chris.
What I still miss in SFP? Different EQ flavors! I love the Timeworks EQ and the Creamware EQ can be OK too, but I still miss some aditional flavors. For example, I would like to see an EQ that sounds somewhat more open and transparent than the Time works EQ in mode 1 and also an EQ that sound a bit dirtier/coloured than the Timeworks EQ in mode 2.
Cheers!
Vincent
Anyway, the devices I use within SFP for mastering totally depends on the music, so I'll make a list of devices that I use frequently and a list of devices I use sometimes.
Frequently:
- Timeworks Mastering Compressor Hard
- Timeworks Mastering Compressor Soft
- Vinco
- Timeworks VintagEQ
- PsyQ
Sometimes:
- Optimaster (I'm not a big fan of multiband compression and try avoiding it as much as possible)
- D-mute D-Compressor
- Softclip
- Creamware stock EQ
- Creamware stock limiter
I've no need for any aditional metering in SFP, because I already use the excellent Pinguin Audio Meter software, as already mentioned by Chris.
What I still miss in SFP? Different EQ flavors! I love the Timeworks EQ and the Creamware EQ can be OK too, but I still miss some aditional flavors. For example, I would like to see an EQ that sounds somewhat more open and transparent than the Time works EQ in mode 1 and also an EQ that sound a bit dirtier/coloured than the Timeworks EQ in mode 2.
Cheers!
Vincent
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kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: BPM 60 to somewhere around 150
- Contact:
yup, I master in SFP. Usually, for vocal demos, I do heavy compressing. For theater stuff, I use no mastering. Just EQ.
I have a project just for mastering with:
p4eq (good enough)
celmo's subbass
reverb just on extreme lows
DADEV Multicomp (multicomp+limiter)
and then sometimes Vinco or softclip depending on how loud the material has to be.
I use Samplitude 6.04 for playback/recording. Or sometimes 2 instances of cooledit if I'm too lazy to set up a samplitude project.
My Gripes: I really like the sound of DADEV Multicomp, but it's totally opposite of transparent. In otherwords, DADEV Multicomp is extremely good at making characteristic sounds, but not crystal clear sounds. I wished I had just a simple L1 or L2 maximizer. Sometimes all I need to do is to make something loud. I just purchased timeworks mastering package so that might do the job.
I have a project just for mastering with:
p4eq (good enough)
celmo's subbass
reverb just on extreme lows
DADEV Multicomp (multicomp+limiter)
and then sometimes Vinco or softclip depending on how loud the material has to be.
I use Samplitude 6.04 for playback/recording. Or sometimes 2 instances of cooledit if I'm too lazy to set up a samplitude project.
My Gripes: I really like the sound of DADEV Multicomp, but it's totally opposite of transparent. In otherwords, DADEV Multicomp is extremely good at making characteristic sounds, but not crystal clear sounds. I wished I had just a simple L1 or L2 maximizer. Sometimes all I need to do is to make something loud. I just purchased timeworks mastering package so that might do the job.
That'll sure do the job! I think they're great. Although the L1/L2 also have their strengths (good for making everything 'fit' and they do funny things with your low end), I generally like the results I get from the Mastering compressor better.On 2003-07-14 06:14, kensuguro wrote:
...Sometimes all I need to do is to make something loud. I just purchased timeworks mastering package so that might do the job.
I <i>was</i> thinking of creating a complete mastering processor plugin based on the Timeworks atoms.On 2003-07-11 12:13, krizrox wrote:
But if I know you, you've got something up your sleeve and we'll be waiting eagerly to see what you come up with.
But judging from the low number of responses to this thread, and the one on the Creamware forum, there doesn't seem to be a market for it. At lot of people have already bought the Optimaster, and most of them proberly won't buy another mastering plug, especially since the price would be the same or even higher.
I am however considering releasing a standalone multiband compressor:
What do you think ?
Kim.
_________________
<b>D&M / Timeworks</b>
http://d-media.dk
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2003-08-14 01:39 ]</font>
weelll,i was always hesitant to respond because i know that mastering is really a pretty sophisticated process.what one needs to listen for is not always obvious to the untrained ear.mastering usually involves exceptional tools and a very accurate room.my room has been treated with asc panels and it's not bad but it's not great.it's really too small and it has a carpeted floor with a crawlspace underneath.
i use the optimaster.i really like optimaster,but i think that the multiband compressor could be done better.lately i've really gotten into logic's multiband.....either way i like the using psyq lightly as well.i really would be a good candidate to buy a mastering plug although the multi comp with the stw eq might be the same thing.....
really, i need to get an eq or two.i just haven't gotten around to testing yet.i have nice orban and urei parametrics,but i would like a great eq in sfp.stw and the celmo's pultec(y) plug are on my list,of course.i'm looking for an outstanding eq for this(mastering)purpose.i hope these will fit the bill.if the eq in the plug you were considering was finer than the older stw designs,could you make one anyway?i would be willing to find double money for a GREAT eq....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-08-14 03:53 ]</font>
i use the optimaster.i really like optimaster,but i think that the multiband compressor could be done better.lately i've really gotten into logic's multiband.....either way i like the using psyq lightly as well.i really would be a good candidate to buy a mastering plug although the multi comp with the stw eq might be the same thing.....
really, i need to get an eq or two.i just haven't gotten around to testing yet.i have nice orban and urei parametrics,but i would like a great eq in sfp.stw and the celmo's pultec(y) plug are on my list,of course.i'm looking for an outstanding eq for this(mastering)purpose.i hope these will fit the bill.if the eq in the plug you were considering was finer than the older stw designs,could you make one anyway?i would be willing to find double money for a GREAT eq....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-08-14 03:53 ]</font>
[/quote]
I <i>was</i> thinking of creating a complete mastering processor plugin based on the Timeworks atoms.
But judging from the low number of responses to this thread, and the one on the Creamware forum, there doesn't seem to be a market for it. At lot of people have already bought the Optimaster, and most of them proberly won't buy another mastering plug, especially since the price would be the same or even higher.
[/quote]
And herein lies the problem from my perspective. I probably wouldn't be interested in acquiring yet another mastering plug-in unless the thing delivered pizzas and made excuses for the lipstick on my collar. Last year I made an enormous investment in SFP plug-ins and suffered the inevitable buying hangover. I have more stuff now than I know what to do with.
Odd as this may sound, practically no one that comes into my studio is interested in pushing the boundaries of sonic perfection. Most of my clients are up-and-coming artists who are only interested in getting the best sound quality for their meger budgets. They don't care which mastering processor I use as long as the end result sounds good to their ears.
I've already bought Optimaster/PsyQ and these two devices produce an excellent end result. Anything better than this would be simply lost on my clients, I suppose.
So from the perspective of small business owner/operator, that's where I'm coming from.
Anyway, I've always thought your products represented the best of the best of the 3rd-party plug-in devices. Don't know what the market may hold for another mastering plug-in or whether your development time might be better pointed in another direction, but I hope that you continue to produce devices.
If you're interested, here's what I could use:
1) A better amp simulator for guitar/bass - I'm not entirely sure this has been done right to date. I have a couple of devices but they all have quirks which make them less than perfect. The Line6 Pod is about as good as it gets in the carbon based world. Wish someone could do that with software. Too bad the Amp Farm isn't an SFP plug-in. It's not enough to spit something out onto the market and then let it sit there unattended. Something like this probably needs watering occasionally.
2) Echo/Delay - I'm not sure this has been completely explored either. I'd be interested in something like Line 6 does with the their vintage collection of pedals in a rack.
3) Spectrum Analyzer - why someone hasn't done something excellent to date is a mystery to me. In fact, there are very few audio tools in SFP. Strange if you ask me. I can imagine a bunch of stuff that would be useful.
I <i>was</i> thinking of creating a complete mastering processor plugin based on the Timeworks atoms.
But judging from the low number of responses to this thread, and the one on the Creamware forum, there doesn't seem to be a market for it. At lot of people have already bought the Optimaster, and most of them proberly won't buy another mastering plug, especially since the price would be the same or even higher.
[/quote]
And herein lies the problem from my perspective. I probably wouldn't be interested in acquiring yet another mastering plug-in unless the thing delivered pizzas and made excuses for the lipstick on my collar. Last year I made an enormous investment in SFP plug-ins and suffered the inevitable buying hangover. I have more stuff now than I know what to do with.
Odd as this may sound, practically no one that comes into my studio is interested in pushing the boundaries of sonic perfection. Most of my clients are up-and-coming artists who are only interested in getting the best sound quality for their meger budgets. They don't care which mastering processor I use as long as the end result sounds good to their ears.
I've already bought Optimaster/PsyQ and these two devices produce an excellent end result. Anything better than this would be simply lost on my clients, I suppose.
So from the perspective of small business owner/operator, that's where I'm coming from.
Anyway, I've always thought your products represented the best of the best of the 3rd-party plug-in devices. Don't know what the market may hold for another mastering plug-in or whether your development time might be better pointed in another direction, but I hope that you continue to produce devices.
If you're interested, here's what I could use:
1) A better amp simulator for guitar/bass - I'm not entirely sure this has been done right to date. I have a couple of devices but they all have quirks which make them less than perfect. The Line6 Pod is about as good as it gets in the carbon based world. Wish someone could do that with software. Too bad the Amp Farm isn't an SFP plug-in. It's not enough to spit something out onto the market and then let it sit there unattended. Something like this probably needs watering occasionally.
2) Echo/Delay - I'm not sure this has been completely explored either. I'd be interested in something like Line 6 does with the their vintage collection of pedals in a rack.
3) Spectrum Analyzer - why someone hasn't done something excellent to date is a mystery to me. In fact, there are very few audio tools in SFP. Strange if you ask me. I can imagine a bunch of stuff that would be useful.
I didn't answer because you emphasised the 'professional i.e. making money part'. I do want to improve my mastering with a view to earning some cash from it. I don't own an Optimaster yet but will probably do so in the near future if nothing better comes along, for that quick solution. In the meantime I use STW mastering suite which is great but takes a bit longer. (Not good for clients and their money)
If it was a really sweet multiband compressor with the response like the Vintage EQ I'm sure I would be interested. The Finaliza has it's uses but not for pro stuff or dynamic enhancement. Let's face it,if home studios are going to compete with commecial studios, we're going to need the tools. And there's a huge market out there for people who hate the commercial music industry, no matter the style of music.
What I really mean is, how many of us make a sustainable income from mastering? and perhaps that's why you didn't get many responses. Also the bloke that mastered my album years ago ruined it, and it would have cost me the equivalent price of 2 Optimasters for him to fix it. My aim is to provide a service to musos that won't put them in financial difficulty. So if I do a master for $500 and it takes me a day, that's more than I'd get at my regular job, then your product would be worthwhile. Or may be a really nice expander or limiter would be the go....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ricardo on 2003-08-14 10:28 ]</font>
If it was a really sweet multiband compressor with the response like the Vintage EQ I'm sure I would be interested. The Finaliza has it's uses but not for pro stuff or dynamic enhancement. Let's face it,if home studios are going to compete with commecial studios, we're going to need the tools. And there's a huge market out there for people who hate the commercial music industry, no matter the style of music.
What I really mean is, how many of us make a sustainable income from mastering? and perhaps that's why you didn't get many responses. Also the bloke that mastered my album years ago ruined it, and it would have cost me the equivalent price of 2 Optimasters for him to fix it. My aim is to provide a service to musos that won't put them in financial difficulty. So if I do a master for $500 and it takes me a day, that's more than I'd get at my regular job, then your product would be worthwhile. Or may be a really nice expander or limiter would be the go....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ricardo on 2003-08-14 10:28 ]</font>
If you don't think you can master audio with earphones, you are mistaken. But if you do try that, make sure they are good ones
I'm always amuzed at the comments directed towards the "wizard" function in Optimaster. I can actually feel the disdain. You guys seem to love knobs and buttons. Must be the keyboard player in you. I, on the other hand, prefer simplicity (must be the guitar player in me).
Some of these synths look like science projects gone horribly wrong
The wizard function is worth the price of admission alone (imho). But one should never ever assume that the results are as good as it gets. It can take a lot of tweaking to get music mastered properly. Yet, in my experience, the wizard function does a wonderful job and often times is good enough for the task at hand. Again, coming from the perspective of small business owner, being able to push a button and get acceptable results in a few seconds means a lot to me and adds value to my business. I don't want to sit there for hours pouring over minutia. I want to be able to produce fast, yet excellent results and move on to the next project.
But that's just me
I'm always amuzed at the comments directed towards the "wizard" function in Optimaster. I can actually feel the disdain. You guys seem to love knobs and buttons. Must be the keyboard player in you. I, on the other hand, prefer simplicity (must be the guitar player in me).
Some of these synths look like science projects gone horribly wrong
The wizard function is worth the price of admission alone (imho). But one should never ever assume that the results are as good as it gets. It can take a lot of tweaking to get music mastered properly. Yet, in my experience, the wizard function does a wonderful job and often times is good enough for the task at hand. Again, coming from the perspective of small business owner, being able to push a button and get acceptable results in a few seconds means a lot to me and adds value to my business. I don't want to sit there for hours pouring over minutia. I want to be able to produce fast, yet excellent results and move on to the next project.
But that's just me
You are far of krizrox. I am no keyboard player. But I have experienced the wizard f***ing up the balance of my acoustic tracks pretty badly.
Information for new readers: A forum member named Braincell is known for spreading lies and malicious information without even knowing the basics of, what he is talking about. If noone responds to him, it is because he is ignored.
Yeah? So then what? Did you try manually adjusting the settings until you acheieved satisfactory results or simply decide it wasn't worth the effort? I do a lot of acoustic sessions here. And I've used Optimaster on practically all of them. To date, no one has asked for their money back. Acoustic tracks need to be treated with kid gloves. In fact, most acoustic style instruments need to be treated with care. It's very easy to ruin acoustic tracks with too much compression/limiting/eq, etc. I probably wouldn't depend completely on the wizard function for acoustic tracks either.On 2003-08-14 12:24, Immanuel wrote:
You are far of krizrox. I am no keyboard player. But I have experienced the wizard f***ing up the balance of my acoustic tracks pretty badly.
Well, whatever. The main thing is that you must decide for yourself which tools you need to get the job done. Choosing the right tool for the job is usually a very personal and subjective thing. The fun is in looking right?
Getting back to the original question, I guess all Kim can do is feel the waters and then decide if it's worth investing the time. I still think there are other frontiers out there that haven't been explored yet (as I mentioned in my previous thread). How about a tripleDAT clone? Only better