Hit Song Science

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:33 am

Well, well, well....

What leaps and bounds are we crossing in the music business that we have to have software to tell us whether our songs could be Top-10 hits or not?...

Man! It seems to me all we have to do is listen to mainstream radio and copy whatever song is playing down to the song structure and take it from there, no?

That doesn't even assure the fact that some big time producer(probably brainless and tone-deaf at that) will hear the alleged Top-10 hit you meticulously put together using the analysis taken from the software.

I'm so glad I'm not in that particular section of making music...

Music has no future in the hands of money-makers...

Any thoughts, you guys?

Paul

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:30 pm

agreed.

Business is about quantifying data & making your 'plan' accordingly so the balance sheets add up in your favor. Music is inherently hard to 'quantify' (for reasons that I probably don't need to go into.)

For those that don't know what this thread is about:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/0 ... 41&tid=188
http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=48160

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:43 pm

From the above link:

"although the article claims that it 'will allow new sounds and styles to flourish.'"

uh... bullshit? I say yes!

IvoVerberk · Post by **IvoVerberk** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:08 pm

You are absolutely right!

The music business is in a whole lot of trouble these days thanks to el-cheapo cd burners.

And what are they going to do about it? its just like paul said : they've become so hit-oriented that they won't put out any more music that's different from the 'hit-format'. Simply because it won't sell enough. This is a really bad thing as the music will get very boring very soon, because we've all heard it before.

There is also another annoying thing going on lately. I'm referring to all the pop idol shows on television. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing how a 16-18 year old boy/girl is singing all those "i-didn't-create-anything-of-this" "sure-to-be-number-1" popsongs.

There are only few modern songs that I think are worth listening to these days. Everything seems to be either nu-metal, rap or dance/trance music. The majority of what I listen is "old" music from the likes of simon and garfunkel, hendrix, aerosmith and all those other great 60'-80' bands. They made timeless music instead of one hit song.

Well I'll stop rambling now

I would really like to know what you guys think of this.

Greets,
Ivo

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:18 pm

Ivo wrote:

"...as the music will get very boring very soon..."

Sorry to say this but, WE'RE ALREADY HERE!!!

I am talking about mainstream radio, of course. Some conglomerate in the U.S decides what plays on the air for something like 25,000 radio stations in North America. Don't tell me Celine Dion's husband doesn't have shares in that business...

_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2003-03-18 13:23 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:34 pm

Well, don't we have da Z for this!!!

I'm so happy to have found this site, since i'm coming here, i NEVER listen to radio anymore, i prefer listening to Ken, Borg, Maket Spirit, Algo and all of you guys!

Music still have lotsa hope with us! Well you...

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:49 pm

someone should bring a software to make really bad music.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:57 pm

How about Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Acid, Fruity Loops and Pro Tools?

Bad music comes from those, eh?

Post by **garyb** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:52 pm

"facism should rightly be called corporatism as it is a blending of state and corporate power" -benito mussolini

corporate thought is not for art.it is for domination and profit.ignore it and it'll go away.indulge it and it'll run every aspect of your life,leaving you with a mediocre,but profitable(to the corp)existance.......

also,what does ANYONE,even a computer know about hits? "angel baby" was a huge hit in the u.s.a. in the late 50's early 60's.it was recorded on a home reel-reel with one mic in a living room(near where i live).the drums get lost and turn the beat around halfway thru the song.the sax is in the wrong key and out of tune.people LOVE that cut.it still plays daily on oldie radio,yet the first time it was on radio the dj put it on for a joke....

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-03-18 21:14 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:51 pm

Great example Gary.

May I add, what would that SW think of "Louie, Louie"?

hehe

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:23 am

they couldn't even get the lyrics right........

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:08 pm

Hey Paul this is a nice topic you opened.
But please open your eyes, it is not about what we have to hear in the radio it is about what people wants to hear.
If a radio track won´t sell it dosen´t appears.

Let us try this, 1 Bumm "I" 2 Bumm "´am" 3 Bumm "in" 4 Bumm "love".
2.1 Bumm "you" 2.2 Bumm "are" 2.3 Bumm "my" 2.4 Bumm "girl". Bumm Bumm Bumm Bumm.

You can listen to a current hit for a minute or less and you have heard everything of the track.

The main thing is that, I see an analogy between the music and the time we have now. No complicated things, easy understanding, you just turn on your radio and have fun, ey!!!!!

How simple we have become.

elisha · Post by **elisha** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:58 pm

Sounds more like a program to track the evolution of popular music.... I wonder if hits from every decade have some of the same of these "mysterious" characteristics that the developers talk about.

I myself will try to be an infiltrator, a sabotager of the current pop system by putting at least one "radio hit" style song on a project, while putting whatever music I want to create on the rest of the project.

It's a way to get the creative stuff into the hands of the general public (for the sake of this discussion we'll call them "Pop Zombies")

Interestingly, my 17 year old son is quite suddenly impressed with the 'old' creative stuff from the 60's & 70's and is showing me songs (he thinks) I have never heard... I'm careful to not throw cold water on his enthusiasm!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:08 pm

now THIS, is interesting. I can't get back with a full featured reply, because of my birthday party and all, but I'll be sure to give some thought to this. Or more like, I'll prepare to share some thoughts that I've already given to this issue.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:11 pm

Pop music is a chemistry formula. Combine cracked "I"s with sounding like you're in pain, and bingo! A hit explodes. Suddenly you see Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears on the top 10.

I call it "Manufactured Music."

Shayne

elisha · Post by **elisha** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:18 pm

Imagine that one of us on this forum happens to make a great piece of music that is creative, unique, and becomes popular... then the style is copied again and again until..... Pop Zombies will only listen to the 'new' pop music formula, which used to be cutting edge...

Always somewhere between artistry and marketing!

elisha · Post by **elisha** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:20 pm

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... add one more "o" to pop music and you get "poop music"

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:36 pm

what is funny is that this software (if it ever works and is released) will lead to the development of another sofwtare to analyze the hotability of hitable tunes.
Over time, we will at least reach the ONE AND ONLY Song that hits and is hitable and that's really cool for production and advertising costs

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:36 pm

what is funny is that this software (if it ever works and is released) will lead to the development of another sofwtare to analyze the hitability of hitable tunes.
Over time, we will - at last - reach the ONE AND ONLY Song that hits and is hitable and that's really cool for production and advertising costs

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-03-19 15:39 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:53 pm

On the other hand, I can imagine myself using such a sofware as a creative tool, taking what i like or making it do weird stuff.... could be fun (after all, what are we asking for with arpegiators, autochord, even presets in synths! or may be "bounce vstis to audio track wy can't i do it with pulsar" ; all this allow us to guide us and gain time, which is precious for most of us, orsimply inspire us, or even better in my opinion : making us do mistakes that become excellent sound ideas thanks to our work (ah, i loved that EPS bug, which had many oher fans too). We are musicians, we are a bit lazy no ?

and we are always (at least me) looking for new ways to do things, new toys , to bring us new inspiration.

It is only the one who would follow blindly the software that is "dangerous", but does such a moron exists ? (yes of course

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-03-19 16:12 ]