the best classic analog syntheziser ever?

helldriver · Post by **helldriver** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:51 am

i ask this because i want to buy me a real analog syntheziser but i don´t know which is the best choice for me. i thought about an andromeda. but i also thought of a roland juno 106, which is much cheaper than the andromeda (by the way, how close is the original to creamwares emulation?).

please speak out your recommendation or opinions.

cheers

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:02 am

I've owned quite a few of the real hardware synths over the years and each one has its strengths and weaknesses. It really depends on the type of sounds you want.

For my tastes I usually wanted something that could be a bit nasty, so cross-modulation and sync and were always prerequistes. But some of the nastier synths were very poor at string sounds

What sounds are you looking for ?

_________________
Where I rest . . .

[ This Message was edited by: spirit on 2003-01-08 02:45 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:34 am

I dunno about sounds but I tried the Andromeda and I found all the knobs were wobbly. For a synth of this price and calibre I would expect a firmer feel (oo-er) and I was so put off that I didn't even put on the headphones to hear it. OK it was a shop demo model but surely it shouldn't be that knackered after a relatively short usage?

ernest@303.nu · Post by **ernest@303.nu** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:50 am

Should you have listened to the Andromeda, you would have noticed it's an extremely potent machine!!!! I've played the thing a couple of hours at a friend's, and I was really really impressed with it... the almost mathematic accuracy of the oscilators, the filters that can sound clean to nasty, the HUGE unison sound (no way of doing this with a Virus, for example!), easy layout, good modulation.... but it's not cheap.

The Juno-106 emulation of Pulsar is actually pretty good! (except for the famous original 106-noise)
The only thing I noticed is that on my *real* 106 the filters sounds a little bit dirtier with steep envelopes and max resonance.
The 106 is a nice synth but definately not the same league as the Andromeda.

I like my Akai VX600 synth pretty much..... it's not easy to program because of the lack of knobs and it's complexity, but soundwise the VX600 is very potent!
100% analogue VCO (syncing), VCA and VCF, 6 voice polyphonic and multi-timbral, very good modulation matrix (comes close to the Andromeda), analogue FM-modulation with VCO and VCF (!!!), DIY expansion for 6 individual outputs, 2 individual audio inputs, auto tuning, auto filter calibration, grahical(!) display, etc...

[ This Message was edited by: ernest@303.nu on 2003-01-08 06:54 ]

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:57 am

The best classic analog ever ?
In my mind the Oberheim Matrix 12.
They're not cheap though. Au countraire mon ami.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:08 am

OK, if we're simply talking "classic" then it'd be hard to beat something from Roland's Jupiter series. (What do you think Jupiter 8

)

The Jupiter-8 was one of the famous big synths of the 80s and is robust, so a good example should be too hard to find.

It's smaller brother, the Jupiter-6, had most of the same functions and in some ways was easier to operate.

But both weigh a ton.

The rack-mount super-Jupiter is even better, but is virtually useless without the 2U rackmount programmer.

In comparison, the Juno-106 was like a poor-man's stripped down Jupiter. It had none of the advanced functions or controls. It can't get any really interesting sounds since it lacks sync and cross modulation. I think the Korg Poly-6 or Poly-61 was everything and more.

Another real favourite of mine was the Korg Poly-800 MkII. The integrated delay and six-stage envelopes could get some very strange sounds happening - I'm still sorry I got rid of mine. You should be able to pick one up very cheaply.

For real bleeping madness (but non-midi) was the Korg mono/poly.

I owned all those machines (and probably about two or three dozen more) but the ones I really miss are the Poly-800 MKII, Mono/Poly and Jupiter-6 - which just goes to show that the most expensive isn't always the best.

I'd stay clear of old Prophet gear since IMHO the build quality was rather low. I owned quite a bit of flakey Prophet gear over the years nd finally vowed never to touch them again. Certainly the old Pro-One's were prone to go out of tune even when new.

I didn't like many of the more modern digital or hybrid synths, even at the height of the digital craze I felt the Yamaha sound was cold and weak. So I'll just skim by to the Virus Indigo which is my modern favourite. Beautiful silk, and distorting weird, reminds me of the good old days.

But there's nothing in the entire sweep which is hugely better than what's available as soft synths.

What do you want hardware for ? Is it for live use, or as a "feature piece" in your studio to impress the clients ?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:10 am

A list:
Minimoog
Prophet 5
Prophet 10
Korg PS-3200
Korg Poly-6(that envelope reversing knob was fab!)
Jupiter-8(definitely a classic!)
My personal favorite:
AKS Synthie!

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2003-01-08 09:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2003-01-08 09:12 ]

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:46 am

I own an Andromeda, you'll pry it from my cold dead hands as I'll probably never sell it!

My short list of "wants":

1. Studio Electronics ATC-X
2. Moog Voyager
3. Oberheim Xpander

For *everything* else (my needs) Andromeda, Creamware and various VSTI synths cover anything I'll ever need.

- sl

helldriver · Post by **helldriver** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:54 am

i search for a real analog synth that provides a wide range of sounds, from effects, to pads,nasty leads, etc.
i also would like to have many knobs for intuitive modulation. i hate those interfaces without knobs.
midi would be nice too (maybe to use it as a masterkeyboard for other synths), also a pitchbend and modulation wheel.
i think, a jupiter 6 or 8, or a andromeda is the thing. but they are very expensive (i´m semi professionell).
what´s with the arp odessey or yamaha synths,
what is the clue having an oberheim?

every comment is welcome.
please post.

thanks

helldriver · Post by **helldriver** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:01 pm

Hey sinix,
is it possible to use the andromeda as a masterkeyboard like virus?

elisha · Post by **elisha** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:21 pm

Hi all,
being a guitarist I haven't jumped into the synth world much... I use an Alesis QS7 which seems to give me very warm and natural piano sounds and a few usable synth sounds (strings, ethnic, etc.)...

I haven't used the pulsar synths at all.... are they good? Or do the analog synths you're talking about sound alot better?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:01 pm

just get yourself a nordlead3 if you got the cash. good MIDI implementation, and does more than all the anlalogue synths put together.

Unless the "historical value" matters very much to you, it's just much easier using a very good VA synth. I think using analogue synths these days is more about its social value, more than its sonic potential.. most of the times anyway. But this of course doesn't answer your question.

OK.. along the real analogue synth road, I think it's logical to get the one that is most available. It'll have more parts, more support, and better longevity in general. So ones like Prophet5 sounds ok to me. It's got a bunch of options, and available upgrades and refurnishes. If you get an ultra rare model that sounds super, but takes hundreds of bucks to repair once it breaks down, you're doomed. It's good to stay away from the lesser known models me thinks.

I think it's wise to wait 'till you find a model that you really, REALLY want. Not just under a scope of "I gotta get an analogue synth" It's like a vintage car. It'll take persistance and cash to maintain. So, you'll really have to fall in love with it to be able to actually keep it under control. I mean as you know, analogue gear ain't the most consistant gear around.

If you're looking for something with very potent sonic capabilities, just get ModIII. It'll kill most of the real analogue synths out there in terms of capability. Steep learning curve tho... but then again, everything comes at a price.

So... anyway, I'm just blabbering some ideas. If there's still a specific analogue synth that sparks in your mind.. then definitely get it. Because it means you LIKE IT. And even if it's not quite as capable, even if it looks ugly, even if it's not widely supported, musicians definitely work better with the gear they like. And of course write better tunes with it. That's the ultimate function of an instrument.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-01-08 14:03 ]

helldriver · Post by **helldriver** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:03 pm

the pulsar synths are pretty nice.
especially the minimax(similar to a real minimoog), modular 1-3, pro1, saturn, ...

but if creamwares´ synths can compete with real analog? i don´t know. the real thing (real analog) is normally always better.

a badcover version is not the real thing!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:13 pm

well, I'll just repeat myself. An instrument's goal, is to help you write better tunes. Whether it's "real" analogue or not, is of course not the question. It can either be a "real" analogue, or "VA". Depending on the situation.

If you do not know whether CW synths, or VA synths in general cannot compare to analogue synths, I think you should do some more experimenting. Because it's a big investment you're getting ready to make, and nobody likes feeling cheated afterwards. Just because a synth is "real" analogue, it's not going to make the world a perfect place to be.

As Spirit says, each synth has its strong points and weak points. And this is more drastic in analogue synths. So you'll have to be double careful in choosing.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-01-08 14:18 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:57 pm

arp 2600

really ken's advice is good.use you ears and mess with a bunch b4 you buy.sfp's got some great soft synths as well with classic sounds.i never heard a complaint about minimax(except that it was another analog) or john bowens(!) prophet 5,both which could give you lots of function for a lot less money than the originals(i'm NOT saying to not get the original).

gee,sounds like you really need to hit more shops and play around with some stuff.there's no absolute best,just things that seem to work better for one thing or another.

what was that cool roland analog/digital that was on the market for a minute a few years ago?the first one with lots 'o' sliders and knobs in a while?jd-800?that was a cool one....

oh,yeah,the 106 emulation is pretty good,maybe 80% maybe 98% for some sounds,definitely recognizable......

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-01-08 22:59 ]

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:57 pm

When asked if the Andromeda makes a good master keyboard, I often say, honestly, I don't know! I'm not a "player". I'm a technical geek that has a passion for creating sounds. I sort of poke at the keyboard...

I'm not qualified to answer that question, but I can say I know of several people that do use the Andromeda as a master.

V/A's come aweful close to analogs, especially in the mix w/ fx in many given situations. The Minimax is the closest (virtual) thing I've heard to a real Minimoog. But if your really into the overall sound, *nothing* has the punch, growl and depth of real analog.

If you can't get the "real" thing, except for the Andy, I couldn't... the next best thing is Minimax + Vinco.

I'm a freak for sounds, it's more than just social snobbery for me. I don't make a ton of money either, but I worked hard and am greatful for what I have.

If I had the money, I'd have a Oberheim Xpander and/or a Jupiter-8 for pads. These are arguably the best sounding polysynths for pads ever created IMHO.

Then I'd add a Studio Electronic ATC-X for fx, leads and oomph. And finally a Moog Voyager for well... BASS!

I completely understand everyone is different and that's what makes this forum so great is the diversity of us all.

Post by **hubird** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:22 am

xpensive, but it should be mentioned here:
Waldorf Q Plus Kb
best of both (v/a) worlds, and absolute the top, o-n-c-e I will have it!

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:15 pm

I own a Nord Lead I and a Waldorf Micro Q. I love them both and they have a different sound from each other. The Nord Lead I is the synth which is so easy to program over anything I have ever used. One day Pulsar synths will be better than hardware but not today.

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2003-01-09 19:16 ]

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:16 am

On 2003-01-08 11:54, helldriver wrote:
i search for a real analog synth that provides a wide range of sounds, from effects, to pads,nasty leads, etc.
i also would like to have many knobs for intuitive modulation. i hate those interfaces without knobs.
midi would be nice too (maybe to use it as a masterkeyboard for other synths), also a pitchbend and modulation wheel.
i think, a jupiter 6 or 8, or a andromeda is the thing. but they are very expensive (i´m semi professionell).
what´s with the arp odessey or yamaha synths,
what is the clue having an oberheim?

I´m not a dedicated key player but since I've got an Oberheim MC1000 I've found a new way of playing and very better results recording midi and getting much better performances from SFP synths and samplers, which I could not get with my (old) analog synth keyboard as master.
Consider this (for not expensive price) and also MC2000, MC3000, hammered keys or not...
Search with patience your best needs

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:02 pm

Another thing to keep in mind (don't you just need more things to think about?

is that when you sit down in "MusicShopBFE" and start diddling through the presets that what you hear is on par very very far from the overall capacity of the synth. I think the Virus C (though I'm sure there are others) is the only synth where not only did the demo rock, but the preset tones were consistantly amazing. Case in point. I bought a K2500XS several years ago before I really cared much about sound programming and I got it used and with a trade in, so I just used the presets for years. One day I just kind a realized that the presets blew ass (to use the preferred nomanclature). But I've been recently spending at least an hour a day pluggin away at all the tutorials and info sites I can find and experimenting. The more I go, the more I realize how lucky I was to have just bought this monster without knowing what it could do. Someone just told me it was bitching. And it is. But I guess what I'm trying to say is, you may find a bunch of V/A's and listen to them and say "hey these tones sound pretty weak compared to this old-skool analog," but the V/A's presets are often put together by engineers and designers and not musicians. It's really easy to be deceived by the preconfigured sounds as to what a synth can do, so if you can, go to a small shop that deals in mostly synths or someplace where there's staff who know something. I also recommend as you narrow down the boards you're leaning towards, you google search for some tutorials to take with you in the shop so you can get some objective "what can this synth do" work done as opposed to just "who used more money to hire the better team of sound designers."

One last thought. Analog synths, in my opinion, do sound better, but they generally aren't as versitile as a good V/A or the plethora of CW synths. Analog, I feel, is like getting a really nice Guild Acoustic after years of building your skills on an Epiphone. The difference in tone between analog and VA/digital is subtle and can easily be lost on people who are starting out with synths. In my opinion you're better off starting with a solid VA with lots of depth and diversity of sound which'll give you lots of room to learn about how synths make all their tones. Then once you've learned it inside out, the qualities and limitations of other synths (specifically analog stuff) will be much more apparent.

I recommend a Nord Lead, Virus, Kurzweil K-whatever. Any model of any of those synths will have tons to play with and will provide a range of sounds that will at least come close to a lot of other synths.

Anyway, I've been rambling on a bit (which means it's time to start drinking

Peace, and happy shopping! Feel free to bounce more questions our (or at least my) way as you make your way towards a purchase.

Sam