horrible digital white noise, is my card broken?

tim167 · Post by **tim167** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:14 pm

i get this sometimes (almost every day lately):
after powering up the pc (PII 400mHz W98SE) sometimes suddenly, without any clear reason, my Pulsar II card and Luna2496 box completely freak out: deafening white noise is trashing my speakers and the power and signal leds of the luna box are flickering in all colors...

uhmmm
help?

i might add that my power supply just exploded (no kidding) two days ago. I put in a new one (250W) and it works ok, only my mobo gives me long beeps when starting up wich go away when i press the RESET button once.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:41 pm

man... I wouldn't be definitely sure about it, but I think something's seriously wrong with your PC... keep us updated on this.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:38 pm

Aren't those "long beeps" your mobo giving you an on-boot diagnostic ? I'd take a look in your manual and see what they mean. Also, why did your first power supply fail ? Do you know what the cause was ? Have your cards ever worked properly since the power failure ? And with two cards (and who knows what else) you should really be looking at a 300W supply . . .

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:51 pm

I would recommend the safest way, and this is trying your card in another computer. Perhaps from a friend, or from your shop, if Pulsar works find, its not the card, it’s the computer.

Most likely it is the computer. If it is the computer, build up a logical organized way of cheeking everything or you’ll get mad. Try to get one of the many software available to scan HDs, CPU, Memory, compatibility issues, etc., discarding one by one, what is right, till you reach the problem.

If you keep us informed, perhaps we can help. I’m not an expert myself, but many friends here are. Good luck!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:30 am

On 2002-12-09 20:38, Spirit wrote:
Also, why did your first power supply fail ? Do you know what the cause was ?

because it was built as a piece of crap.
Sorry for Tim what's happened, but it's NOT a single case.
There are examinations about reliability and voltage quality of powersupplies which said 8 out of ten had flaws. In some brands big capacities exploded due to wrong layout.
It's all about price tags.
There's a good chance something on the mobo got damaged. I'd check the Creamware parts in another system,but leave them out of the current mobo.
A damaged voltage regulator might cause additional harm by providing the wrong power.

good luck, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2002-12-10 01:33 ]

tim167 · Post by **tim167** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 6:24 am

thanks guys for all helpful replies.

about the power supply:
I thought it was just ageing, since the computer now has about 4 years of service and i use it quite alot and dragged with me on the road on several occasions...
I didn't really expect this to happen but i wasn't surprised either. Several symptoms should probably have lead me to replace the powersupply earlier. For example: The disk-activity indicator (red led on the case) was constantly glowing instead of indicating the disk-activity. After changing powersupply this is back to normal.

About the card:
Yes, it did work properly for a long time. I added the lunabox recently, wich indeed needs power so puts extra strain on the supply but i gather it's not that much?
Do i really need a 300W powersupply?
As a matter of fact now my card works fine too, only this terrible noise may again surprise me any time. I can only hope it doesn't but i'm afraid it will.
When it does, the only thing i can do is to restart the computer. I can also stop the noise by disconnecting pulsar2 analog source and Z-link source A from the mixer in the project window.(nothing physically connected)
Because the light state of panic, i haven't tried if at that moment the other things still work but i don't think they will. It's probably best to shut down when it happens anyway.

Should i pull the card out and wait to use it again 'till i have a new pc?
Annoying thing is that it only happens now and then and it's impossible to predict, so if one day i will think i solved it, i will never know for sure...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:29 am

you might disconnect the analog source from your project routing and use only the Luna box for IO.
If the noise doesn't reappear, you have at least a temporory cure.
It's all very vague because the effect can't be associated with a certain part of the system. Damages by static electricity are very similiar. They come and go, but never predictable - with one exception: if you're at the repair service they'll never show up.
The watt number of the PS doesn't mean too much. But the higher it is, the less stress is put on the output (in case it's not a totally crappy one) and this directly affects the noise level on Pulsar's analog circuitry. The bigger ones also produce less heat. Keep in mind that the CPU in an audio app generates several times the load of an office system and the disk are running full speed too. If you keep your PII/400 it's certainly not a big issue, but in case you upgrade to P4 (?) it's worth considering.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2002-12-10 08:35 ]

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:07 pm

i had this problem with my old computer, eaven this horrible sound destroed my both tweakers!
after i change computer this problem disapired for long time, and about month ago started again. i had this sound every day about 5-6 days and then stoped. now is everyrhing ok again.
i asked cw's for support but they didn't know what can be source of problem.
unfortunately, i think that we can... pray

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:11 pm

... i think that's something with grounding, because if i touch pulsar's cannon conectors in the moment when sound starts then stoped.

tim167 · Post by **tim167** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:34 pm

On 2002-12-10 08:29, astroman wrote:
They come and go, but never predictable - with one exception: if you're at the repair service they'll never show up.

There's one more such exception I guess:
if you're using the card in a live situation it WILL show up!
Too bad I can no longer trust my card for live applications.
Imagine this happening in the middle of a live gig !
I wish someone could tell what exactly causes this problem and how to eliminate it permanently...

As for grounding (as sandrob suggests): I have no grounded sockets here, it's an old house here. But when this noise appears i can do anything, touch anything (within reason) unplug anything (also within reason) but it doesn't change a thing.

thanks for help !

Tim

[ This Message was edited by: tim167 on 2002-12-10 14:36 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:10 pm

sounds kinda like a sync problem....what's the master/slave situation between the luna box and the card.what about switching them and seeing if things are more stable.(i run a 400 watt supply..)

tim167 · Post by **tim167** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 5:40 am

I wasn't aware of any master/slave situation between my card and the lunabox.
I have a Pulsar II card on wich I replaced the classic 20 i/o plate with a Z-link plate.
I never came across anything about setting master/slave in this process of installing the box.
If you mean samplerate settings in SFP, they are as follows:

system: 44.1 khz
master button is selected
sync source: S/P-DIF (i CANNOT select Z-link)
samplerate: 44.1 khz
the Z-link A indicator is lit
and "ADAT out" is selected

any good?

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 8:14 am

On 2002-12-10 22:10, garyb wrote:
sounds kinda like a sync problem....what's the master/slave situation between the luna box and the card.what about switching them and seeing if things are more stable.(i run a 400 watt supply..)

in my case this sound started from nothing. no metter what is slave what is master or if i run pulsar alone without slaves (adats). no metter what i do. in most casses starts when i do nothing - for no reason.
i have enermax 431 watt suplly and ups but i think that's something wrong with my grounding.

Jerome · Post by **Jerome** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:25 am

Two years ago I also had this teribble noise. After a while I found out that when I wiggled the cableconnector from my pulsarcard the noise stopped. Then I took the pulsarcard out of the case, put It back and screwed the nut thigth on its place.

Never had the noise again, untill I took my computer out of the studio to an on loaction recording (lots of bumping and moving).
Again the noise dissapeared when thigthing the nut from the pulsarcard.
So I think the noise can have something to do whith the pulsarcard not seated correctly in the pci-slot?

Hope you don't hear that noise ever again (It scared the crap out of me anyway)

jerome

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:24 am

On 2002-12-11 09:25, Jerome wrote:
Two years ago I also had this teribble noise. After a while I found out that when I wiggled the cableconnector from my pulsarcard the noise stopped. Then I took the pulsarcard out of the case, put It back and screwed the nut thigth on its place.

Never had the noise again, untill I took my computer out of the studio to an on loaction recording (lots of bumping and moving).
Again the noise dissapeared when thigthing the nut from the pulsarcard.
So I think the noise can have something to do whith the pulsarcard not seated correctly in the pci-slot?

Hope you don't hear that noise ever again (It scared the crap out of me anyway)

jerome

yes, it can be contact. sound starting with few clicks then more and more and if you touch or probably shake cables then stoped.
now i see! from the moment when i open my computer's case last time i don't have most horrible sound in the world.

xtric · Post by **xtric** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:18 pm

I have exactly the same problem
What an horrible noise!!!

xtric · Post by **xtric** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:22 pm

I think that's it can be a ground problem
I touch just a little the back of my computer
close to the outputs of the Pulsar and the noise stops!!!
Or a problem of connection!!

This noise is so horrible, beginning with little cracks and CRRRRRRSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH!!!
Coming randomly!!!
Eric
A french user

flashvalley · Post by **flashvalley** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:51 am

I've just experienced something similar.
All the outputs of the Luna I/O box started to produce random noise, plops etc from out the blue. The main outputs from my pulsar II produced white noise.. And the input leds on my Luna I/O box started flashing randomly.. very weird and very disturbing..

hope it doesn't reoccur... scared the hell out of me

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:45 pm

this sound is verry destroing. i'm whitness that can destroy speakers.
so, if you have this problem you must be carefull.
never leave raised fader for monitors when you're not in room. it's good idea to disable pulsar in background!!

pulsarized · Post by **pulsarized** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:26 pm

I had the same symptoms....

I tried everything from bios or systemtweaks,
bigger&better powersupply, more ventilation (you know..heat..especially with a scope srb or card)case and hdd),by the way... that really workes for my drives. When working in cubase sx after a while crackles would randomly appear. Even if not playing, as if sync wasn't right. But it WAS. And the strangest fact...end cubase and it was over.
And it kept getting worse.

The only thing that FINALLY turned out
to help: thoroughly cleaning the pci-slots,
and while you're at it, clean the memory and cpu-socket as well. It REALY worked for me. And if it worked.....does it only seem to me,
that the sound is clean as maybe never before.

A little trick, the gold contacts of the card can be handled with a simple eraser(hope that's the english word for it..
you know..for drawing, on top of a pencil...but not a rough one -care- is the keyword). You can use a can of compressed
air for the slots. You'll figure out the rest.

Hope it will work for this community.

Greetz,
Ray