how to set Scope 7 for recording from Z-link 8 channel BOX

[banex982]

Hi, I was using scope 3 (hardware 3DPS card and LUNA2496 Z-link I/O box) like 12y ago on winXP and I successfuly used Cubase v3 I think for 8 channel recording. Now I got SCOPE v7, and when I try to add recording channels, I just cant, tryed to open EZ and Pro Recording a setups provided with SCOPE but nothing, still in programs when I go SCOPE ASIO they see only 2 channels, I guess from card itself. But no trace of 8 channels of LUNA O/I box. I tried everything in routing window, and all is same. Can some1 help me? Like snapshot of routing window or file tha I can open with all already set SCOPE routing window for recording from Z-link 8 channels.. I would appriciate any.
Thanks

[astroman]

The Luna Box is only visible in Scope (the PCI card controls it‘s in/out)
You‘d route the Luna Box channels to/from Scope to DAW via Asio channels.
There are different Asio type versions, some of them start with just a single io-pair.
But you can expand (or define the number of channels) if you open it.
Double click in routing window or use the device pop up menu.

[banex982]

ok, thanks, I will try!

[banex982]

I did it, but now I have trouble set output channels, I made all 8 channels record, but I cant make Cubase see output channels.
Do you have a tip for me?

[astroman]

I‘d expect Asio-Source to Z-Link Destination to show up as outputs in Cubase...

[garyb]

Z-Link connections will nnot show in your DAW. the i/o connections for the DAW are the ASIO connections. ASIO source comes from the DAW, ASIO dest goes to the DAW.

in the Scope routing window, you can place ASIO source and destintation modules, set the number of connections in and out of the ASIO modules(before opening Cubase or whatever), then place the Z-Link modules(source coming from the Luna box, dest going to the Luna box) and route as you please.

Cubase cannot see the Z-Link connections because they are on the card and the card is a SEPERATE computer that uses the host computer's power and has the GUI in the host computer(Scope), but operates outside Windows. don't be fooled by the card being inside the case, Scope cards are EXTERNAL hardware, as far as Windows is concerned.

[banex982]

I understand that SCOPE ASIO is what Cubase and other DAW "see" and in routing window acctually make how SCOPE ASIO will work, no of I/O channels and sample freq. for example.
I think I understand and will try to make it work.
My system is acctually external, I have Ryzen PC with no PCI slots, so I bought PCIxpress to 2xPCI slot adapter board and it works flawlessly for now, but I cant put it inside case until I remove some metal that makes impossible to insert SCOPE cards due to theirs length.
Thank you very much for an explenation

[garyb]

actually, "external" means more "outside of windows and the cpu's environment", more than "outside the physical box", but, yeah...

i hope that helped.

[banex982]

So as I understand, channels that are on right side of routing window are for input, and on left is output, right?

[banex982]

and mixer in the middle also should work as mixer for daw ?

also I have a question about midi controlers. If I want to assign fader from midi mixer, do it have to be connected directly to card with old style DIN connectors, or USB midi ctrl will work on it also?

[valis]

Mixer in the middle will work for mixing all signals that you send through Scope. That would include the ASIO *SOURCE* module, as that is the signals coming FROM the DAW, Analog and DIgital INPUTS that come INTO the Scope environment from outside sources, and any sound sources directly in Scope (synths etc).

You will have to decide if you WANT to mix in Scope, if you are just mixing some sources (submixing before sending to DAW etc), or if you are going to mix primarily in Scope as your final summing source.

The ASIO DESTINATION module is where you send signals from Scope to your DAW, and Analog and Digital OUTPUTS send signals from Scope out the outputs on your Scope card (or Xite etc).

It makes sense when you think about Scope as a separate hardware solution that sits inside of your computer case (for the PCI cards, or in the external Xite box if you usxe that), with the Scope UI that you 'see' on your screen as just the control interface for everything that occurs on the DSP chips. Some processing (MIDI, delay lines and etc) does occur on the host PC (CPU/RAM etc) but most of what occurs in Scope is entirely on the DSP chips with the User Interface running under the Operating System (Windows) just handling making everything controllable for you the user.

[garyb]

monitor the Scope mixer(not inside Cubase), and leave it in between ins and outs.
Cubase becomes a multitrack recorder(with additional processing) and Scope becomes the "room" that the recorder and real world components live in. this allows maximum options, flexibility, and allows real hardware to live in the same space as the virtual hardware(like the recorder).
overdubs will have zero latency and you can produce traditionally.

don't mix "as you go". it's not a good idea. it is the equivalent of painting a room(including floor and ceiling) without leaving a path to the exit.
record all the parts first, doing only minor mixing, enough to have resaasonable levels for the parts, but wait until all the parts are in place to mix. this save resources and makes things less complicated. compose first, then mix. it's impossible to get your best mix when you don't have all the elements in place. computers encourtage the opposite.

red triangles on modules are outputs. green triangles are inputs.

[banex982]

Thank you for your answers, helping me alot. I didnt mean to mix in Scope Mixer, was just asking about..
So about midi mixer, it doesnt have anything to do with scope just DAW.

[valis]

A few more tips here, about routing of signals. In the first screenshot below, note that the MIDI signals (red) can all flow from the same 'nipple' connector (on the sequencer source) to the modules I route the MIDI signals too. This seems normal. But look at the AUDIO signal path, and you'll see that in order to route the same audio signal from one module to another, you have to chain it off of the 'nipple' on the destination (where the signal connects) or INPUT of the next module, in order to do complex routing of this type:

Routing.png (339.61 KiB) Viewed 1487 times

Might save you some time figuring that out in the future. You can also see that I prefer to use Micromixers (and I enable PHASE COMP which ensures that left/right signal pairs always stay on the same DSP chip). I do this to manage my signal routing and effects very judiciously, as when projects get more complex the larger mixers eat too much DSP for me. However I use Scope in way that for me is akin to "bus" routing, or in the same way I would by chaining together multiple outboard pieces of gear and compressors when not using a mixer as the routing mechaism (ie, cabling things directly). This is just my preference but I find it works well.

Full screenshot is here, it's just a few pads being mixed and sent over to a few different machines via ADAT so it isn't fully representative of your use case:

Mixing.png (1.32 MiB) Viewed 1487 times

[Bud Weiser]

... I prefer to use Micromixers (and I enable PHASE COMP which ensures that left/right signal pairs always stay on the same DSP chip).

Where and how do you enable "PHASE COMP" for dedicated devices in a SCOPE environment (XITE and/or PCI) ?



Bud

[nebelfuerst]

Good point, Bud. On my micromixer, the phasecomp from Valis' screenshot is not visible. (I used Xite with micromixer X)

[astroman]

It probably doesn‘t exist in the XITE version, because it‘s never a problem on such a tiny device in that environment

[valis]

Yes my Xite doesn't have it either, but I vaguely recall something about there wasn't a concept of stereo pairs or multichannel audio in the 1998 codebase, or something akin to that. The newer DSPs in the Xite may have associated code to ensure things like that are handled automatically, no clue if that's true though.

Using a single cycle click in your daw (mute monitors/speakers) and loop back through ADAT and you can measure if there's ever a mismatch. Phasefix and Phasefix-X from Assaf is in most of my PCI based projects and now that you mention it I don't ever notice issues with phase on Xite outside of very old modules that were 3rd party and use the old DSPs.

[nebelfuerst]

I just booted my scope7 pci machine. Phase comp is visible on micromixer and dynamicmixer.
I never noticed, that there are differences in devices between pci and xite.

[banex982]

Valis, thank you very very much for explanation with snapshots! Garyb and others too!