Get the most out of your sampler

Tips and advice for getting the most from Scope. No questions here please.

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eliam
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Post by eliam »

Well... That is quite a subject to cover, but it's the center of every sampler user's world...
Here's my advice on how to make a sampler sound good:

1. Good samples. Be VERY cautious before you buy any sample library. Don't base yourself on critics or external advice, unless it's first-hand and by a trusted person. Thousands of sample banks are circulating all around and many people are willing to trade them to complete their own collection. So you begin with a few CDs and share and trade and you can end-up with hundreds of them in no time...

Now this is considered fraud, but I consider that selling low quality products to hallucinating prices is the basic cause of this massive sound-library trading... Once I make money with the samples I use which I didn't buy, then I'll consider acquiring those at full price... Until then, I have better projects for my bucks...

Sample your stuff: To sample good quality sounds you need:
-A very quiet space with good acoustics
-A reliable sound source (instrument and musician)
-Top mics, pre-amp, converters and good general set-up.

Think of recording notes at many velocities (3 seems to work)-and not too close- if you want your programs to have a wide dynamic range.

This is lots of work but can be very rewarding if properly done.

2. When you have some sample library in your possession, you must take each sample and correct the pitch (many sounds are out of tune!), loop, volume and envelope, and discard bad samples. Or at least make sure that all is homogenous enough to be a pleasure to work with...

Personally, I work, on the same instrument, with 2 times the samples -one with the full attacks and one with attenuated attacks- to be able to go legato and not to have the full attack on every note. This last thing is VERY important to create nice melodic lines which don't sound synthetic...

3. Proper sampler set-up: now, here we come to the big issue about making a sampler sound natural.

Consider a sound: it has an attack, a decay(often), a sustain and a release (ADSR). You got to have the control of each of these parameters in order to decide how a sound will be born, last and finally vanish.

Consider a musical instrument: it can produce sounds in a wide variety of texture, force, effects, etc.
-The force (velocity) of a sound determines: the strenght of the attack, the brilliance of the sound and its pitch. The louder the sound, the more evident the attack and the stronger the high harmonics. In the case of wind instruments, the velocity will affect the pitch of the note. In the case of string instruments (among others), the velocity will affect the release of the note (after the note has been played, the strings resonate).
Of course if you want (like I do!) to get closer to the illusion that a real musician is playing the music you program, you must understand (mostly feel) the physical instruments...
A sampler can control and modulate many parameters, and the STS family is a charm to program...

I resume my point:
A high velocity means: full attacks, much brilliance, sometimes slightly altered (higher) pitch.
A low velocity means: less attack, less brilliance, sometimes lower pitch.
On the STS: set the attack shape in a slope and the modulation so that it conforms with the mentioned principles. Settings differ from a situation to another, but you must hear the attack decrease as the velocity does.
Set the filter(low-pass) value between 50 and 70 (just a starting point) and assing the velocity as a source of modulation. Set the mod value higher than 30, and hear the brillance diminish as the notes go softer. Then adjust it as you like...

Is all this interesting anyone? It may sound theorical, but I know first hand that it's the way to get the most out of your sampler...!
Any questions or comments? I may elaborate if anyone wants me to; There's a lot more to say about this!
borg
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Post by borg »

please, do go on!!!

i'm kinda fed up going thru manuals...but i guess i'll just have to...
dblbass
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Post by dblbass »

eliam - good stuff - more more more!

a few questions:

what sampler(s) do you use? What do you think about hard vs soft?

do you use orchestral samples? if so, your favourites?

what wave editor software do you use, or do you stick to samplers' own editor?

Once you've done all this extensive sample library polishing, who do you organise it all on your HD. Samples in one place, programmes in another? Or all Programmes together with the samples they use.

Sample conversion software? I have started using CDxtract. It's got it's pros and cons.

I wish I could get a full listing of sample programme formats, including all the detailed settings, for Akai, STS, and soundfont. It'd help me understand what gets saved and what needs to be tweaked when I go from one to another.

Do you know any good books which have helped you, or good websites with instructive or theoretical articles? I hate click-by-click instruction. I need the more conceptual approach like your brief but useful post above.
eliam
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Post by eliam »

The manuals might explain you how the functions work, but not how to set them up for a realistic result... For that you got to look into the physics of sound and try to reproduce the actual wave-form as closely as possible... I'll try to go through what I understand and explain some possibilities we have with marvelous tools like samplers...

Now, what I explained in the first message applies to all the instruments, because whatever sound you hear complies with these principles.
Don't hesitate to ask if you want clarifications.

I'll take each instruments or groups of instruments and look at how we can get as close to reality as possible.

Piano: The shape of the wave is: a peak at the attack when the hammer hits the string, and then a decay. The decay of the lower strings can last almost 30 seconds and the small ones 4 seconds. For the piano, the parameters we can work with are the attack and the brilliance. At low volume, the tone is darker and the attack less audible,so the velocity must modulate the attack and the level of filtering. Once this is set, it automatically adjusts these two things; but in addition to that, it is often useful to have an independant control with which we can play with the attack's shape and high freq filtering. That is why I assing another controller as modulation source, which I can control from a hyperdraw window in my sequencer. So if I want more or less filtering on a particular note or passage, I can "manually" adjust it as I like. Unfortunately, my STS does not permit to assign a controller other than velocity to modulate the attack, so we're stuck with the average setting that we've programmed.

Now, these are useful points for every instruments, especially those with sustained notes such as strings and winds. I don't play much with the independent filtering modulation on my piano, but maybe I should...

With the sustained sounds, mostly the same settings than with the piano must be programmed. But in addition, I modulate the filtering with the volume. I set a filter modulator on "external" and put it to a negative value, (usually not lower than -10). I then go in the sampler "settings" to set the controller # at "7", which corresponds to the volume. In this way, if I make a crescendo on a violin note, the sounds grows "brighter" as it grows louder. It doesn't sound as if someone had turned up the volume knob while the sound was playing... This applies for all strings and wind instruments.

After this, I try to set up a nice natural vibrato. This is not easy, but it's worth the effort. Of course, you must have samples which doesn't already come with a vibrato. Many sounds contain much vibrato which makes them often unworkable.
For a realistic vibrato, you must modulate 3 parameters with a LFO: the pitch, the brillance and the volume. So you must assign to these a LFO as modulation source, and set your LFO so it can itself be modulated by let's say the modulation wheel controller. In the STS, you can modulate the LFO's frequency, depth and delay. The freq and depth mod are useful, so make some tests and see how it sounds. This requires careful tweaking to make it appear natural, but once it's set, you hyperdraw your graph and the vibrato comes and goes at your command. Now you must leave the LFO's depth at "0" so when your controller is also at "0", the sample sounds as is. Only when you raise its value is the effect activated.

I can resume it like that: the higher the mod wheel control value is, the faster the LFO goes and the more pronounced the sine wave becomes.

Ok, I'll continue tomorrow... good night!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-03 23:23 ]</font>
eliam
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Post by eliam »

Well, actually, a friend of mine just explained most of this stuff to me, but I really understood it only once I began to use the STS3000 and tried to make it sound as good as possible. Man, when you spend an entire week on a single song trying to have it sound as close as possible to reality, you explore some ways and means to treat the samples and program the machine(soft) to reach your goal... Months of work with some clever advice from my partners have helped me to grasp the basics...

My musical aspirations go spiraling in the highest spheres of symphonic orchestration. Are yours parallel with mine? If so, then we'll have fun!!! :wink:

I don't know much about machines. My friend has a emu and it sounds pretty damn good... I think akai is pretty solid too... Me, I prefered to get a pc for the same price and have all the possibilities it offers. I bought my cw card mostly for the sampler and I don't regret it!

I don't know any books related to this topic. But my opinion is: once you understand the basics, you experiment with your music and see for yourself what it's about.

Actually, I' studying a fascinating book called "the study of orchestration" by Samuel Adler. It comes with 5 cds full of examples which are explained and scored in the book... Absolutely inspiring! Highly recommended.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-04 09:27 ]</font>
Noctulius
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Post by Noctulius »

Btw, could anyone compare STS (the family), GigaStudio, Hallion, EXS24 (or how is Logic built-in sampler called exactly?) and Virtual Sampler?

Thanks.
marcuspocus
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Post by marcuspocus »

Hi Eliam! Very very good instructions! Myself i know almost of all parameters and 'technical' thing of the STS, but your 'applied accoustics' helped me alot. I was fiddling yesterday with bass samples thinking about what yoy said, and STS (naturally), and i had a hole lots O fun! My bassline in Logic seemed to come to life! Very very good!
eliam
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Post by eliam »

It's a pleasure to be of help!

I have worked with gigastudio for months (some time ago) and I still don't know how to program the settings as I explained above. It might be powerful, but it's certainly not friendly...

Then, counseled by Mr Pocus, I met my STS sampler... What a relief! This program is a piece of cake! I think this is due to the fact that it is an emulation of a hardware machine (akai), which has been tried and tested over a long period of time, so it's configuration and architecture is almost flawless...

The STS is unable to do certain things, like modulate the envelope with an independant controller, and I still don't know if I can copy the settings from a program to another.

Because once all the tweaking is made, it would be great to export only the settings to other instruments without having to re-enter all the values...

But aside of these manageable limitations, it works like a charm!

I don't know halion, nor the logic sampler, but if you have a sts, you got the power!

Marcus, have you tried to put some vibrato in your basses? This will sound great!

If you guys want to hear what I'm talking about, I'll be glad to put some audio examples in the mp3 files...
subhuman
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Post by subhuman »

Great thread! This is more of a tech tool to help you get on the path to your creative parameter tweaking to get more realistic sounds... the King of Snake tools:

<li><a href=http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... m=13&0>STS Add</a> - 'Utility for adding lots of wav files to a sts file for use with Creamware STS series samplers. Useful for creating drumkits...'
<li><a href=http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... m=13&2>STS Creator</a> -'Utility that automates te task of creating programs for creamware sts series samplers.
Just select any number of wavfiles and a program will be created for each of them...
Very handy'

Very handy tools indeed! Hope this helps.
eliam
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Post by eliam »

Thanks, subhuman, I think this might help...

Ok... To add a notch of realism to the music I make, I play a lot with my pitch bend control. Here are general directions:
-with wind instruments: the louder the note, the higher the pitch. Even though the difference might not be consciously fully audible, yet this really adds something to the overall "humanity" of a track or arrangement. Soft notes tend to be slightly lower in pitch. We could automate the pitch modulation by assigning the velocity as a mod source for the pitch. I never tried that, but it might be helpful. The difference in pitch for a ff note on a trombone may be something like an eighth of a tone above the perfect pitch, no more than that. So with a cautious use of the bender, we can adjust the microtuning in order to reproduce these variation. In a crescendo, the pitch rises as the volume increases and inversely. In the case of reed instruments (single or double), we must keep in mind that the player can lower the pitch by decreasing the pressure imposed to the reed.
-Strings: if you carefully listen to a violinist's play, you'll notice that he is constantly correcting the pitch of the notes that he(or she)plays. This is due to the fact that it is difficult to precisely put a finger at the exact place where the note is perfectly in tune. So the player must correct it with his hear once the note is vibrating. This means that the note is a bit off tune right after the attack and then it is corrected. This is true for all non-fretted string instruments.

I think I covered most of the basic programming hints for those who aspire to create an illusion of truth with a sampler.

I think (and I know) that with all the parameters well set and a whole lot of experimentation and sequence polishing, the result can in some cases fool the listener as to know if it's real or not. My partner even added breathing and key clicking to his clarinet sequences, and let me tell you that with patience, we almost have a band in a box...

Of course, we need more good samples taken at 3 different velocities as well as more experience and know-how, but with joyous creational activities, then we're getting there!

I think that the solist instrumentists must be real, but the background can be made of samples and if well done, no one will notice...
dblbass
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Post by dblbass »

Eliam - more great stuff. I'm interested in going the same directions.

Again, any advice on orchestral samples? So far, I've only foraged the net,plus various freebies. The "big-name" collections are SOOO pricey!

Of course there's one intrument for which I can make my own samples. When not pulsaring, I play a six-foot tall analogue device with steel-wound waveform generators and a multi-stage maple and spruce filter system, driven via a pernambuco/horsehair/ebony user-interface. I'm now up to five of these under one roof - more addictive than pulsar devices!

BTW, the Adler book is very good, I also recommend his sight-singing book.
dblbass
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Post by dblbass »

okay, here's a sampler question

I have East-West's Ultimate Piano (Akai format), which I like very much. It has a couple of Steinways, a Fazzoli, and a Boesendorfer, all in various configurations and RAM footprints.

But when I load these up in STS, I notice that many of the underlying samples are transposed in the MIDI settings, some a half an octave, some a whole octave.

In a big sample programme with lots and lots of wavs inside (keygroups are only 3-4 notes wide), why would anyone transpose samples over such large intervals? I would think you'd get funny sounds due to formants getting out of whack - though to be sure, these programmes sound great. What's going on here?
eliam
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Post by eliam »

I was to ask you why you had this nickname, and I was correct in my assumption... For sure it must be ecstatic to play on this kind of analog device! I loved your description!!! :smile: Where are you based, my friend?

Orchestral samples... Ah, what a subject... Sooo pricey you say? Indeed, no wonder why people copy them... A friend of mine (of whom I talked already) actually bought and cleaned and polished abouf fifteen sample banks in the way I mentioned in the first message. Advanced orchestra, McGill and prosonus are a part of this cherished sound library which he shared with me... It took him years to set up, and we work together now to complete it. BTW, forget Vitous library, it's a scam... If you want your own library, we're open to trade, and imho, our sounds really rock!

So many sample cds are plainly poorly made, as the piano you desribe... What do you want to do with fifth intervals on a sample program?!? It's just no good! Probably almost useless, except for amateur demos...And we pay fortunes for this kind of product. It's a shame, truly!


But I think there will be real good sample banks in the future and maybe even now. Anyone heard of Garritan string samples? I heard only their demo, but they sampled chromatically at 3 velocities. The demo seemed promising... I think that the future is to get together and buy worthy things in group, so we can afford them...

dblbass, mail me if you want...

Bye!
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kensuguro
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Post by kensuguro »

I'm very interested in your orchestra sounds... I still haven't come accross anything that really represents an actual recording.. Do you have some sort of demo tune??

I'll also add that your contributions to the Pulsar community is very appreciated. keep up the spirit! Kudos, Eliam.
marcuspocus
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Post by marcuspocus »

I agree with Eliam, Vitous is a scam, and the samples he and his partner made are way way better, since i had the good luck of having them myself. I found out very soon how i was lucky in getting those. Buying all this by myself, i would have spend FORTUNE just finding samples half as good as those.

Anyway, this is my way of saying a big big thank you to Eliam and his friend for this marvelous samples bank.

I use them almost everyday.
eliam
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Post by eliam »

At least it compensates for the bad deal with Vitous... :smile:

I'm really happy to collaborate with you, Marcus... without you I'd be as helpless as an infant... almost... :grin:

Thanks, Ken, for your encouraging words and your contribution on this forum; really appreciated too!

A demo... I'm thinking about it... I'm very busy just trying to get rid of some clicks which pollute my work pretty badly... And until it's fixed, I don't know if I'll publish anything...

In fact, I'm a bit stuck with this situation and I don't know what to do... I'm close to reformat my HD and start from scratch...

Anyway, I keep you guys informed about it, and I'll send an extract as soon as possible...
dblbass
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Post by dblbass »

I looked at the Garritan website some time back. The philosophy and approach they describe sounded quite appealing, but of course the proof's in the pudding. (or is it the pudding's in the ear?!?, or something)

But Garritan looks like its Giga only. I want to stick to STS ad I don't think that's a do-able conversion.
algorhythm
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Post by algorhythm »

I think that it would be cool to have a STS X000 forum here @ planetz, like the Mod Forum, but for samplerz . . .

What do ya'all think?
John?
eliam
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Post by eliam »

I think it would be approriate... Don't you think, John?...

The Garritan library is now available in other formats, including akai. I'll see if I can hear more of it... Has anyone around ever heard or worked with sounds from this 16 cds set?

Talking about strings, I think I'll let you guys hear an extract of a string quartet which I'm composing with the help of my STS and Logic. At least it will give you an idea of how it sounds, and give me the occasion to elaborate more on one of my favorite subjects...:smile:

I've worked on that minute of music a lot, and I'll announce it here as soon as it's released...

See ya!
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wayne
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Post by wayne »

hey dblbass, you got 5 :wink:
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