Advantages of using Pulsar II/XTC as opposed to just recordi

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 8:42 am

I was interested in getting Pulsar XTC as an addition to my Logic Audio setup to take some load off the CPU due to extensive use of VST plugins. I was comparing the UA and Powercore DSP cards to Pulsar and liked the fact that Pulsar ran instruments as well as plugins. However, I'm concerned about latency using Pulsar in XTC mode, the Pulsar sales rep says that you also need to purchase the IO for XTC due to problems with third party sound cards, XTC is not expandable with new plugins as well as some concerns posted in the Planetz forums. Any advice? Why record/mix in Pulsar as opposed to just doing the same in Logic? Does XTC mode work better than other cards such as UA-1?

Thanks,

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 10:34 am

It's an interesting concept, these DSP VST accelerator cards, but still not perfect. All the cards you mention have their strong points, but I think for the Creamware cards (and this is coming from a long time Creamware user so keep that in mind), the XTC mode removes one of the features that initially enticed me to try the CW stuff, and that is the Zero Latency, on the DSP based synths/samplers/effects/mixers, it responds exactly like hardware when in the native "Pulsar" mode. XTC/VST mode always adds some amount of latency, which takes away from the feeling you're using "real" hardware. Adjusting compression settings with 2xASIO latency just doesn't quite do it for me as much as something realtime.

And that is where the other cards fall short for me, they do not have this "zero latency" environment, they are stuck in VST accelerator mode, and there are no outputs on the cards.

But time doesn't stand still. ASIO latencies are getting smaller, and sequencers are making changes to allow these DSP accelerators to work better.

It's close, but I'm personally waiting a bit longer for it to get sorted before moving to that way of working and adding other accelerator cards. I'd suggest you get a full Pulsar2 card as your I/O, then you get both the XTC mode and the 'flagship' native Pulsar mode, and add the other DSP cards to it at some point after a few more updates are released for the sequencer of your choice and the software for those cards.

But it would be cool to have SCOPE/Pulsar/Luna/Oasys/UAD/PowerCore all in one machine, I must admit.

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:36 am

I have Scope and Oasys in my setup, and it ROCKS bigtime. Zero latency and very high sound quality...
I have uninstalled XTC

I work at a ProAudio dealer as head of sales & support, and decided that we won't be selling XTC, UAD & Powercore. They simply don't "work" with current sequencers: They add dsp-power, but downgrades the functionallity and stabillity of your system...

Kim.

[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2001-12-20 10:16 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 8:56 am

It was a hard decision for me, as well, because I wanted to carry UAD-1 as soon as it came out but it has no I/O and they couldn't tell me if it'd work with Creamware which is the main thing we sell, so we decided to wait this round out. I suggest you do the same.

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 9:30 am

Kim:

What does OASYS do that UAD-1/Powercore cannot do. Isn't OASYS around $2,000 (triple the price of the UAD-1? Does OASYS create any conflicts with third party IOs such as the EMI 2/6 or MOTU 828 or do you use the OASYS as the IO. I'm perplexed and intrigued!

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 9:47 am

Oasys operates in realtime, without the confines of working as a VST instrument, in a similiar way that Pulsar works. You leave Oasys running and can trigger it via software MIDI ports (unfortunately, Oasys has no hardware ports so your sequencer must run on the same computer as your Oasys card), triggering the synths and effects in real-time just like a hardware synth. Creamware cards also operate this way, no limitations of VST instruments, and zero latency. This is why both kimgr and myself like Oasys/Creamware much better currently compared to the VST latency forced with UAD/PowerCore's method. In fact UAD/PowerCore's latency is entirely dependant on whatever other audio card you have that has outputs!

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 9:49 am

Also Oasys is being blown out at Guitar Center currently for $499 or less, hurry if you want one.

But there are no official words if there will ever be Win2000/XP drivers for Oasys. Still it sounds really good and thats an incredible buy if you run mac OS9 or less or Win9x and plan on staying with those OS for a bit.

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 9:56 am

Sub:

Thanks for the info. Actually, before I read yoru reply I called Guitar Center and they a few left for $499.

The OASYS sounds cool but is Korg discontinuing them (old technology already). My other concern is that I would have to run OASYS as a separate program, then boot up Logic and have them both running at the same time. Can you operate the OASYS like a VST plugin? For example, say I have a VST instrument (EVP88) and want to add some flanger to it - is the OASYS effects listed as an insert? What about running the OASYS instruments? The Bitheadz stuff, Unity and Retro don;t appear as VST instruments - you have to configure your computer to add a special port and then can only play it in real time by hitting record! Not user friendly - does OASYS operate similarly?

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:09 am

What does OASYS do that UAD-1/Powercore cannot do.

It's more a question of what it doesn't do: Namely screewing up Logic...
It's hooked up to the ScopeCard via Adat, so I've got 8 channels of i/o without taxing the PCI bus. And Korg's reverbs doesn't use CPU ram=no extra PCI traffic. (And they sound great, better than any other plug I have on my system).
Plus it has a lot of "creative" plugs, that also for most part sounds great. More than 100 different FX's...
Plus VirtualAnalog, sampleplayers with Triton soundset, PhysicalModeling synths, PhaseModulation Synths, etc... Almost 40 algorithms.
An added bonus is that I can run Reaktor in standalone mode, streamed directly to the Oasys Adat outputs, with very low latency !!!

Isn't OASYS around $2,000 (triple the price of the UAD-1?

I paid approx. 1.020 $ for mine. (Korg dumped the price recently)

Does OASYS create any conflicts with third party IOs such as the EMI 2/6 or MOTU 828 or do you use the OASYS as the IO.

I've only used it in the above config.

I'm perplexed and intrigued!

Me to

Alone the fact that I can run 4 highQuality reverbs and much more, without the PCI probs, is worth the price alone. (I'm using a Scope1 / original /DP board).
I was planning on getting a RME ADI-8 DD and two Lexicon 500's, but that would have cost me more than 2000$.
Plus I get SPdif in/out and an extra set of analog i/o's

Kim.

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:18 am

Kim:

Are you on the Mac Platform - I hear that Synthkit isn't available for PC, as well as no Xp drivers (which ain't a problem right now for me on WINME?)

As recently asked - is it easy to set up OASYS to run with Logic Audio - does it appear like a VST plugin (like UAD-1 and powercore). Or is it more complicated?

Excuse my english, I'm from NY.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:31 am

As I mentioned above, Oasys does not have the ability to run as a VST Instrument/Plugin. Creamware are the only cards (so far) that can run 'both' ways, realtime, and XTC(VST).

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:34 am

So, in order to run OASYS within Logic, I need to use OASYS as the IO, or if I have another IO, that IO must have ADAT lightpipe in order to route OASYS effects and instruments into the other IO.

Is that correct?

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:38 am

Also, what type of latency do you get when running OASYS as an effects processor in Logic - since it is going from Logic to OASYS and then routed into the IO?

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:41 am

Can you run the analog outs of OASYS (when used as an instrument) into my EMI 2/6 inputs - does that create any feedback loops?

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:03 am

Are you on the Mac Platform - I hear that Synthkit isn't available for PC, as well as no Xp drivers (which ain't a problem right now for me on WINME?)

I'm on PC. I don't know what "Synthkit" is ?
The XP driver thing isn't a problem for me either, since Logic and Scope runs better on Win98se.

So, in order to run OASYS within Logic...

You cannot run Oasys within Logic.

..., I need to use OASYS as the IO, or if I have another IO, that IO must have ADAT lightpipe in order to route OASYS effects and instruments into the other IO.

That's right. You could use the SPdif and analog ports, but...
Your choice of ZeroLatency soundcards with routing possibillities: Creamware and Digidesign...

Also, what type of latency do you get when running OASYS as an effects processor in Logic - since it is going from Logic to OASYS and then routed into the IO?

It's not from Logic to Oasys, it's from Scope to Oasys=No latency.

Can you run the analog outs of OASYS (when used as an instrument) into my EMI 2/6 inputs - does that create any feedback loops?

No, but it creates latency and to much USB traffic. <- Another thing that's banned in our shop: USB audio interfaces...

Kim.

[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2001-12-20 11:12 ]

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:19 am

On 2001-12-20 11:03, kimgr wrote:

...
No, but it creates latency and to much USB traffic. <- Another thing that's banned in our shop: USB audio interfaces...

Kim.
...

The A16 will get an USB2 plugin board- or is that for patchbay instructions only?

[ This Message was edited by: atomic on 2001-12-20 11:20 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:25 am

USB2.0 is a whole new thing, around the same amount of bandwidth as FireWire...

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:26 am

Thanks, but it seems the OASYS card would create latency issues, just like UAD and Powercore, when run within Logic. I think OASYS would be a cool stand alone system for writing, but I want to have everything run within Logic. I don't want to have other systems running at the same time.

Plus, getting OASYS into Logic seems convoluted, like BItheadz method of getting Retro into Logic as a midi port.

I may get it because the price is very good - If I can get it for $399, I would.

Ad Infinitum · Post by **Ad Infinitum** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:29 am

When you say OASYS won't run within Logic, then how do you get the two running together. In other words, say i want to add some OASYS effects to a VST instrument - how do you do that or add OASYS effects to a Logic Audio track?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:34 am

No, there is no latency with Oasys, just as there isn't with Creamware. You trigger it almost exactly like you do a hardware module, only your interface is on your computer screen.

In Logic, you select the midi port that corresponds to the Oasys just as you would another synth; if you have the outputs of your Oasys plugged into your digital mixer or an DA converter box, then it outputs sound exactly like hardware because it IS hardware.