samplitude DAW crashes with scope

[nebelfuerst]

I recently bought samplitude X3 which should be my DAW with scope. My PC is win7-32 with scope-pci 5.1 or 7. There are no crashes with good old cubase 5.
Samplitude gets Midi-MTC or clock to start recording. ( From scope seq dest.) This works stable, if I use the onboard realtek soundcard in samX3.
As soon as I use the scope asio, samX3 crashes with segfault after a few minutes.
I tried scope beeing master or slave to my A16 and changed some settings in samX3, but the crash remains. Also changing asio1,asio2 or asiofloat doesn't help.
After 5 days of intense tries, it seems to be the combination of samX3 with scope.

What can I do to get this stable ?

Is there something special about scope asio ?

[mausmuso]

I have used SAM pro X3 for quite some time and have no issue with SCOPE ASIO.
I am on Win 10 64bit though.
I am away from my studio so I can't check, but I think from memory I had to run it in compatibility mode (W7) back when SAM Pro X3 first came out.
Maybe you could try various compatibility modes if there is any?

[nebelfuerst]

I did lots of tests now:
SamX3 crashes as soon there is a Mididest in scope and the asio of scope is beeing used..
It even crashes if none of the scope midi is used, but a usb-midi instead.

I have no idea, how a unused mididest can crash the daw... but it does. ( tested over 10 times)
It also crashes, of I add the mididest while samX3 is running.. in the moment of adding the mididest.

what can I do ? I need midi in samx3

[JoPo]

Weird ! I made a lot of Sam tests to slave it via MMC in Cubase. I never had any crash as you're describing. I would think it comes from anything but Scope since it works with cubase and not with sam. Is it long time ago you repaired system files ? (sfc /scannow ?)
I guess all your midi I/O hardware are up to date... Maybe, delete all midi drivers in the device manager, then reinstall them...

If it doesn't crash with cubase, I don't see why it would do with sam. Which would means that it's sam & cubase external issue. Again, I would say windows shit somewhere....

[nebelfuerst]

I found a ridiculous solution to get it working:
I removed the seq-midi-dest and feed the midi-data to the scope-midi-dest. Here I plugged my usb-midi-adapter to bring it to samX3.
It works pretty stable, but this solution is so ugly, that I really need some better solution.

[valis]

Is samplitude sending any real-time data, or do you have a synth that does? I used to get frequent crashes from Roland synths that send active sensing, and realized that has to be filtered BEFORE the Scope inputs (not filtered in Scope).

[garyb]

filtering before Scope is better, but filtering in Scope works here.

it could also be from a feedback loop, but i think that this problem is pretty much contained to nebelfuerst's system. i don't know why.

[Ricardo]

No issues here either. Win7 64, Scope 7, Sam pro X3. Running scope synths, kontakt and BFD 3 all fine. There is the occasional obvious lag, but a quick reboot of Sam fixes that completely

[Ricardo]

FWIW have you tried changing the Sam playback mode under audio settings. Also 32bit devices like Kontakt in 64bit Sam can cause freezes and crashes.
I'm no MIDI expert however.

[nebelfuerst]

Sorry for my late answer, but I did much much more tests now:

I installed fresh win7-32, win7-64 and than just scope 7 and samX3, and a webbrowser to write this post
Asio is always set to scope.
SamX3 works well, as long there is no Midi flow to any scope dest of midi. ( no seq midi dest, no scope/pulsar midi dest)
I can run X3 with my USB-Midi using Midiclock, with scope7 and no Midi dest.

As soon, as I connect any dest in scope 7 ( these are not selected in samX3 !), samX3 looses asio buffers.
As this doesn't happen with cubase5, I suspected samX3 to be the bad guy.
But as samX3 works flawless with an other Midi/audio-interface, I think it's a combination problem if scope 5/7 and samX3.

Is there something special about the midi/asio of scope7 ?
Does it make sense to contact sonic core ?

[Ricardo]

may be contact Magix as well

[ronnie]

FWIW sounds like Sam is querying the Scope driver as if it is a sound card to obtain midi and audio capabilities and not finding the Midi and ASIO info it is looking for. For the MIDI issue someting like Midimate may solve that part and for ASIO, Voicemeeter should work. The tiny amount of latency from them should be undetectable. Worth a try to have those intercept Sam Midi and ASIO and have them hand off to Scope.

[nebelfuerst]

I also contacted magix, but I received no reply to my bugreport yet.
Find attached the description of my setup.

SamX3 just uses the external Midi-USB-Cable ( like Midimate) and the scope setup runs as shown in the background.
Everything works.

Now I connect one of the midi dest on the right. Now SamX3 looses asio buffers.

Either samX3 cares about midi-interfaces it shouldn do or scope does some strange coupling between midi and asio.
Do you run a similar setup ?

[ronnie]

That's weird. One should not have anything to do with the other. Did you try using Midimate on the Seq MIDI Dest as well as the Seq MIDI Source? I don't know why connecting to the Pulsar MIDI would have any effect on ASIO.I'm thinking that Sam wouldn't try to query Midimate, or if it did, it woudn't find any ASIO stuff in that driver to mangle. Bridging all the Scope MIDI ports through Midimate would usually stop that.

[nebelfuerst]

I think I found the problem:
In my scope7, there is a scope-15dsp card and a pulsar 4 dsp-card. I used the midi-ports of the pulsar, but the Adat is connected to the scope-15.
If I use the midi-ports of scope-15, there is no problem anymore.
So I think, it is a problem of scope in combination with my setup.
I'll do some more tests, than I'll drop a line to S|C.

Why this only happens with samX3 ? I have no idea.

[garyb]

the 4dsp card may not handle the midi clock traffic as well as the newer card. there's probably not much that SC can do...