New to Scope

[Paprika]

Hello everyone,

I am interested in getting into the Scope universe, and I would like to be clear on some things, and I hope you can help

People talk around about 6 dsp, 10 dsp, 18 dsp systems etc.
As far as I know, there are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation DSP sharc hardwares (PCI cards or Xite-1). Some say the Xite is more powerful.
Does a 18 DSP system have the same processing power, whether it comes from a bunch of PCI cards (Luna, Pulsar, Scope Pro etc.) or a Xite-1? If there is a difference, what is the approximate ratio in terms of processing power between DSP generations? What are their basic differences?

What is the approximate lifespan of a PCI card? I know some have been around for 15 years, but can they survive 20 years of use?

Regarding the Scope Software system:
A) are plugins attached to a PCI card or to the user? Can they be transfered from one card/user to another card/user?
B) If you buy a Sonic Core or 3rd party plugin for Scope V4, what is the fee you have to pay Sonic Core to use that plugin in Scope V5? is the fee per plugin, or one fee for all plugins you may have from previous Scope versions?


I appreciate your help.

Thank you,

[garyb]

PCI cards are 3, 4, 6, 14 or 14dsp.
PCI cards have to generations. there are 4 and 15 dsp fisrt gen cards. the 3 and 6 dsp cards are 2nd gen. most 15dsp cards are 2nd gen, the 14dsp cards are basically the same as 15dsp cards as the 15dsp was redundant and was removed in the last batches to save money.

an XITE-1 is 6-10 15dsp cards in power. the fuzzy number is because depending on what devices you load, various resources besides raw dsp power come into play.

the main advantage to 2nd gen over 1st is lower latency(2ms @ 44.1k vs 13ms @44.1k) and better handling of dsp traffic. generally, the XITE is better in every category(including sound quality, although PCI cards won an academy award for sound with the movie Gladiator), except that certain 3rd party products, mostly Zarg, work better on PCI cards.

yes, the PCI cards can certainly last 20 years or better, and the XITEs are expected to do the same. Nestor has my 18 year old Pulsar1 card in his current computer. of course, there's no promise of that.

A: plugins belong to a specific hardware serial number, not the user. yes, it's possible to move plugins to a new piece of hardware, there is a small fee(currently 98euro and vat), and the plugins will be available for both serial numbers after the transfer.

B:no fee for old plugins on new Scope versions...when you update from v4 to v5.1, you keep your old plugins. you need to send a copy of your old keyfile to support in an email with your order number mentioned and the new keys for those extra plugins are provided.

[Paprika]

Thank you for your clear explanation garyb; i got how it works.

Now, in terms of practical use: how many synths can I get running at the same time with a 15 DSP PCI card; I know it depends on many aspects; let's say I want to use:

1- An 6 Voice Pad running on a Prodyssey.
2- Mono Lead on Red Dwarf.
3- Mono Lead on Minimax.
4- Drone patch in Modular IV.
5- A Bassline in another synth.

Approx, how much PCI DSP these scenario would require?

Thank you,

[faxinadu]

15dsp card will run that scenario no problem

[Paprika]

Ok got it. Thank you faxinadu

[garyb]

don't forget that as awesome as Scope is for synthesis, it's equally awesome, or even more so awesome, for mixing and signal processing...

[JoPo]

don't forget that as awesome as Scope is for synthesis, it's equally awesome, or even more so awesome, for mixing and signal processing...

I wouldn't have said better ! Find a card with Modular IV and you'll process signals !

[dawman]

I am running an entire live band with the XITE-1.

Just 2 Black Lion Audio ADA8200s modified and 3 x hardware FX.
Plus all of my ASIO Samples, hardware analog synths, Solaris and select Native synths like Zebra2 HZ, Piano Teq and Keyscape.

Great sound.

[sunmachine]

Thank you for your clear explanation garyb; i got how it works.

Now, in terms of practical use: how many synths can I get running at the same time with a 15 DSP PCI card; I know it depends on many aspects; let's say I want to use:

1- An 6 Voice Pad running on a Prodyssey.
2- Mono Lead on Red Dwarf.
3- Mono Lead on Minimax.
4- Drone patch in Modular IV.
5- A Bassline in another synth.

Approx, how much PCI DSP these scenario would require?

Thank you,

I loaded those instruments into an empty project so you can see how much DSP would be used.
First screenshot is the empty project.

paprika-empty-project.png (35.75 KiB) Viewed 4764 times

paprika-project.png (130.45 KiB) Viewed 4764 times

[dante]

Does a 18 DSP system have the same processing power, whether it comes from a bunch of PCI cards (Luna, Pulsar, Scope Pro etc.) or a Xite-1?

No. The PCI Sharcs and the XITE-1 Sharcs do not compare 1 to 1. The XITE-1 uses later generation Sharc chips than the PCI cards which run at a ( x 5 ) higher clock rate. To my estimation the 4 new Sharcs plus 6 old Sharcs on the XITE-1D yield the effective power of 26 of the old Sharcs. I use that together with a Pulsar II and 2 x Luna II on the same system (you can run Scope XITE and Scope PCI on the same machine) yielding total equivalent power of 38 old Sharcs.

[Paprika]

don't forget that as awesome as Scope is for synthesis, it's equally awesome, or even more so awesome, for mixing and signal processing...

don't forget that as awesome as Scope is for synthesis, it's equally awesome, or even more so awesome, for mixing and signal processing...

I wouldn't have said better ! Find a card with Modular IV and you'll process signals !

Well that is my idea with Scope; to get a full studio (synths, mixers, fx, etc.) with awesome sound quality.

I am a modular freak, so Modular IV/Flexor is my main attraction.
I come from the Nord Modular G2, only the Demo version, and I think it is a unique synth, although the Modular IV have more options, and I like the workflow, which is very similar.

Besides that it seems to have awesome fx for processing, mixing, and mastering.

My idea is to settle a system with great sound capabilities, concentrate and get deep into it.

[Paprika]

I am running an entire live band with the XITE-1.

Just 2 Black Lion Audio ADA8200s modified and 3 x hardware FX.
Plus all of my ASIO Samples, hardware analog synths, Solaris and select Native synths like Zebra2 HZ, Piano Teq and Keyscape.

Great sound.

Everyone says great sound; guess I'll have to check that by myself

[Paprika]

Thank you for your clear explanation garyb; i got how it works.

Now, in terms of practical use: how many synths can I get running at the same time with a 15 DSP PCI card; I know it depends on many aspects; let's say I want to use:

1- An 6 Voice Pad running on a Prodyssey.
2- Mono Lead on Red Dwarf.
3- Mono Lead on Minimax.
4- Drone patch in Modular IV.
5- A Bassline in another synth.

Approx, how much PCI DSP these scenario would require?

Thank you,

I loaded those instruments into an empty project so you can see how much DSP would be used.
First screenshot is the empty project.

paprika-empty-project.png

paprika-project.png

Thank you for your help sunmachine.

[Paprika]

Does a 18 DSP system have the same processing power, whether it comes from a bunch of PCI cards (Luna, Pulsar, Scope Pro etc.) or a Xite-1?

No. The PCI Sharcs and the XITE-1 Sharcs do not compare 1 to 1. The XITE-1 uses later generation Sharc chips than the PCI cards which run at a ( x 5 ) higher clock rate. To my estimation the 4 new Sharcs plus 6 old Sharcs on the XITE-1D yield the effective power of 26 of the old Sharcs. I use that together with a Pulsar II and 2 x Luna II on the same system (you can run Scope XITE and Scope PCI on the same machine) yielding total equivalent power of 38 old Sharcs.

Thank you dante. Wasn't aware Xite-1D was a mix of 2nd and 3rd generation Sharcs.

Xite-1 is only 3rd generation Sharcs?

If this is so, sunmachine example is eating 1/5 of DSP power.
Given your estimation (5x), then I would need 18 Sharcs 2nd generation to run this scenario.

[garyb]

the XITE-1D isn't available right now and the XITE-1 also has a mix of old and new dsps.

[Paprika]

the XITE-1D isn't available right now and the XITE-1 also has a mix of old and new dsps.

Ok. How many new? How many old? in XITE-1.

[garyb]

6, same as the D.
it's kinda immaterial. as i said before, the XITE-1 is about 6-10 15dsp cards in power(90-150 of the old dsps).

it is not the Sharcs that are 1st and 2nd gen, it's the cards. dsp generations are NOT like cpu generations. newer ones aren't necessarily better and old ones aren't necessarily worse. it's more about the correct choices for the use. both types of Sharcs in all Scope products are intended for audio applications and use basically the same instruction sets. there aren't 3 different Sharcs that have been used, only two. the old Sharcs are still a current Analog Devices product. ALL of the PCI cards use the same chips. the XITEs use the same chips plus some newer, more powerful chips in addition to the old ones.

[dante]

XITE-1D (when available) = 6 old Sharcs + 4 new
XITE-1 = 6 old Sharcs + 12 new.

Theres more info here http://www.hitfoundry.com/scope/ - select XITE-1 from the menu (right hand second row).

[dawman]

I am running an entire live band with the XITE-1.

Just 2 Black Lion Audio ADA8200s modified and 3 x hardware FX.
Plus all of my ASIO Samples, hardware analog synths, Solaris and select Native synths like Zebra2 HZ, Piano Teq and Keyscape.

Great sound.

Everyone says great sound; guess I'll have to check that by myself

3 x TC Fireworx
2 x ADA8200 Black Lion Audio Mods
RP562 Bellari Tube Sonic Exciter for Mains (VoodooLabs Mod using Analog Devices OpAmps + 2 x RCA 5751 Command Tubes)
XITE-1

QSC KW Series PA 2 x KW181 18" Subs, 2 x KW153's and 2 x QSC K12 Wedges

Stereo FOH, Stereo Monitors.

This Dog Will Hunt

LIVE.jpg (254.7 KiB) Viewed 4707 times

[jksuperstar]

And 98% of devices run on either new or older sharc DSPs. The new ones are backward compatible with the old code...they simply run faster and more efficiently to get the large improvement in performance.

Only a select few devices have a *harder* time running on the xite.