real analog

nicked · Post by **nicked** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 5:29 am

i'm a relative newbie to pulsar,

but what are opinions about pulsar synths vs real analog?

i for example recently compared the uknow with a juno...
the juno definitely kicked its arse right out of the ring. the uknow was like a pathetic weedy version of it with no balls, cold and clinical, no warmth.

i seem to find it hard to get the kind of fat warmth out of the pulsar that you automatically get as soon as you switch on an old analog beast.

am i doing something wrong?

ronaldmeij · Post by **ronaldmeij** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 5:36 am

U are 100 % right

U cant compare real vca power and controlled voltage with a dsp based software synth.

It's a fun add on but the die hards who use pulsar for productions use the a16 in outs and the mixer of pulsar for live tracking and mixdown...

I dont like the synths of cw , but the the sampler sts 4000 is great !

I use that all the time.......

nicked · Post by **nicked** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 5:54 am

why is this?

the native instruments pro52 seems pretty faithful to the original. according to jim bowen he a/b' d them blind and couldn't tell the difference, so it must be a pretty good simulation.

is it just down to how much work is put into creating an accurate mathematical model?

nicked · Post by **nicked** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 5:55 am

jim bowen! haHA

any british posters here will know why that's funny

nothing in this game for 2 in a bed

ronaldmeij · Post by **ronaldmeij** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:15 am

well htere is one dsp synth thats fab ...

This one is made by John bowen !!

the fab Pro 1 sequential !!!

https://www.winecountrysequential.com/

Read it and compare it , i have the real thing and the dsp sounds even better

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:16 am

I agree the UKnow is weak, although you'll find quite a few supporters around. In fact hardly any of the old version 2.X synths were very inspiring IMHO. The EZ, Inferno, FM and Blue were thin and lacking character. But I strongly disagree that no Pulsar platform synths compete.

Synths such as Celmo Deep Blue, BassmanIII, some of the CW ModV2 patches, the Synchrotron and the Vectron (and many others!!) are absolutely up there with dedicated hardware (depending on your purpose). I'd go head-to-head any day.

And its fundamental to use the synth that suits your project. The Synchrotron is a pretty nasty mono beast, it ain't going to do ambient.

So it all depends on what you do with it. If you just boot up a dry preset and poke a few keys, then compare with hardware you're probably right. But if that's all you do then you may as well just write lyrics.

A few years back the Flying Lizards had a world top 10 song "Money" using old boxes as drums.

Beyond a critical point it's what YOU do that counts, not the machine.

nicked · Post by **nicked** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:31 am

hmmmm. it ain't wot you got it's wot you do with it - indeed a cold clinical weedy sound could be perfect in the right context.

anyway that is more hopeful sounding. i will try this pro one. one of the reasons i was asking this in the first place is because i have a broken pro one gathering dust and was wondering if there's any point fixing it in these days of virtual synthesis.

how are the simulations of old synths actually made?

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:47 am

I used to own a Pro-One and the tuning pots were no joke (as you probably know). There's no way I'd drag it out. I tried the demo of the Pro-One and although it sounded pretty authentic it seemed rather heavy on the DSP. But it does have a great sequencer built-in. Try the demo.

Are you after nasty analog mono-esque vintage ? Then I'd recommend the Synchrotron (cheap and versatile, great grind and buzz), and the Celmo BassmanIII. The Bassman sounds as real to analog as I've ever heard, plus you can get some sweetness from it too. And then there's the ModV2. Any personal R&D on this is rewarded many times over with devices exactly suited to your project.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 7:39 am

Well, Spirit, I tend to agree with you on the pots of the Pro-one but the sound of the real thing is what I like (once the damned oscillators settle). Don`t forget the fact that it has octave-to-voltage control as well as frequency-to-voltage.
Using octave-to-voltage to control a frequency-to-voltage synth was a lot of fun when running that synth through a ring-modulator.
Try it out!
Cheers!
Paul

ronaldmeij · Post by **ronaldmeij** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 8:19 am

were can get the Synchrotron and the Celmo Deep Blue, BassmanIII

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:57 am

I understand the "clinical" statement, but with some clever programming this is easy to overcome. All VA's sound clinical out of the box, it's up to you, as a musician, to coax the sounds out that you are looking for...

That said, I think running Pulsar synths through analog filters sounds awesome-- try the FrostWave Resonator, or the Electrix Filter Queen/FilterFactory over the Saturn or Synchrotron for example.

I think you'll find the full midi control & stable tuning, along with Program changes and english(not just numbers, or none at all) patch names to be a big plus, too.

Outboard analog equipment obviously still has it's use, look at Uncle E here, he's got a rack full of SPL equipment to die for and a MoogerFooger LPF

Stubbe · Post by **Stubbe** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 11:39 am

On 2001-09-26 09:19, ronaldmeij wrote:
were can get the Synchrotron and the Celmo Deep Blue, BassmanIII

Celmo Deep Blue and Bassman III is at http://www.celmo.com/
Syncrotron info is at http://www.grenzfrequenz.de/devices/synchrotron/, and you can try and/or buy it at the CW online store.

-------

BTW, since you tend to think that the Uknow 007 is a bit weak (not saying that I disagree), have any of you tried the Uknow 007 ver. 1.12 ?
Personally, I think it's much fatter than the original 007, definitely worth a try.

It has been released anonymously, and I allways thought it was a shame that it never got more attention at its release, it could be a test-device to see if we liked that sound more ???

Give it a try, could be worth it

Just a thought.

Cheers
Stubbe

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 11:52 am

Hey man, don't forget about the Pro-1, Juno-106, & Pulse+ propped up in my closet! There are some things that Pulsar can't replace but there are some that it can do very well, the Pro-1 & Uknow being examples of the latter, IMO. Mind you, this is based on the fact that I_HATE_the real Juno -thinnest, most sterile sounding analog in existence- so the Uknow is equally despised!

Get the Power Pack, it comes with Modular 2 & there is no better synth for Pulsar.

-Uncle E

nicked · Post by **nicked** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:52 am

???

it's when the filter's nearly closed that you get the big bass sounds out of a 106. uknow007 just can't do this.

but i guess it just goes to show it's a matter of opinion.

tuning's not something that bothers me particularly either, i'm into really f**ked up techno music where things being out of tune can help

anyway good advice about the bassmanIII, i tried out the demo last night and it can be a real monster for deep subs, which is partly what i'm after.

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 1:19 am

Not only have I had tons of experience with my own Juno's but I've also worked on many sessions where other devout Juno owners have shown me just what it is that they thought made it so great, yet still I've remained unimpressed. Anyway, forget about what I think, it definitely has it's own sound & was pretty much the voice of speed garage a few years ago, not to mention it's instantly identifiable pads are on every Underworld album out there.

Unison mode is the key, mess with the U Know's spread knob to dial it in. Also, there's an 8 oscillator modular 2 patch by Defex that nails it.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:41 am

Ah yes, don't forget the mighty Saturn. It's supposedly a Jupiter emulation and the Jupiters (4,6,8) were always the superior big brothers to the Junos. And the Saturn is free.

I used to own a Juno106 and found it to be dull. Dull, dull, dull. It didn't have the grunt of a Pro-One, the strangeness of a MonoPoly, the power or versatility of a Jupiter, or the character of a Moog. The only thing it had going for it was that it was simple, clean and obvious. = dull

Of course almost every machine has its place...

nukiss · Post by **nukiss** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 9:43 am

Hi,
I think you always have to consider the place of a synth in the mix. It doesn't make sense to have an huge sound that you have to tweak down in the mix so that it fits.
I only have ... a juno 106... as real gear and the whole rest is dsp or native and it does it! try the Sid synth a native with commodor codes sounds like a game boy but it's great! also celmo syntzh are great bassman III is the most really deep and accurate bass synth i know. Basses are the most tricky sounds to program real effectiv!
Check it out! If you mix in a big studio facility you can also route your sound into some class A equipment analog and so on.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 11:29 am

Has anyone tried this?
I've got a Hitsound sampling CD, (Old Gold Synths) and loading the samples into the Modular or the Sample Player, in conjuction with Obsidian's Tool Box, gets some good results.

Robert

captain kirkus · Post by **captain kirkus** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:11 am

Id suggest to anyone who dont like pulsar to not use it. It's made for computer synth junkies and the computer your typeing on blows away a typwriter; but that is neither here nor there;..I love pulsar synths and they all fit infront of my face on one screen..Analog is for some and digital for others and one day youll be living in a virtual world claimg analog blow jobs were better than theese new digital ones:)

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:28 am

The vectron player is the first one I really like. Over all I just need a little better performance in win2k and I will be happy with all my pulsar hardware and software which I have spend over $2,000.00 on.