Mac advantages?

[Jah Servant]

ok, I know nothing really about Mac computers, I understand why they got in for video and audio work in the earlies, but what are the advantages with Macs today? (other than you don't have to deal with windows )

[garyb]

Apple controls all hard and software, so compatibility issues are virtually nil, less choices in hard and software for those who don't want to choose, and almost all of the choices that exist are pretty good, for the most part, only quality components are used...

the REAL advantage USED to be in the Mac OS, which was stable for many, many years, was simple to use and install, was virus proof etc, which made it too good which made it unprofitable in the long run, which was scrapped in favor of UNIX(OSX), a nice, smooth-running os, that made it possible to charge customers over and over.

a mac will do no more work than a pc, and is no more reliable than the pc if the pc is made of the same quality parts. the mac is more expensive, and it might be "cooler", so if you want it and can afford it, there's nothing at all bad about it, it'll be great. if you want to run Logic or Digital Performer, a Mac is a must. otherwise, i'd spend that same money on a pc, i'd build it carefully, with good parts, set it up properly, buy some extra programs and/or studio gear(XITE downpayment?) with the $2000 i saved(assuming i'm getting a top notch system and not an iMac equivalent), and get to work...

[Jah Servant]

I'm more curious than anything really. I'm not concerned with style, just functionality. My audio computer doesn't go on the net so all that doesn't matter to me either. I'm believing that a well built and tuned pc gives great performance and I was just curious if the mac has any advantage anymore.

[siriusbliss]

Up until a few years ago, I knew a couple guys running XP on Macs due to supposed higher-stability considerations, but alas they had similar issues (although relatively minor) that they probably would've had on a PC anyways.

Now, at the hardware level, PC's and Mac's are nearly identical. Apple likes to OPERATE as though it's a closed system, but there are workarounds for high-end geeks and tweakers.

I agree with Gary, that a well-built PC is just as good as a well-built Mac, and the PC is more hot-rodable and customizable.

The jury is still out on the latest Windows 7 vs. Snow Leopard OS's - although having a UNIX core may still have an edge in some extreme cases.

There's an increasing blur between the two - plenty of gaming companies using PC's, and some studios using Mac Pro laptops networked to PC's and RAIDs.
Gaming developers still using mostly PC's, and Video editors using a hybrid of Mac and PC (two video codec developer friends are using PC's exclusively).

So, it comes down to the 'cool factor', and whether or not you have time and knowledge to customize your hardware/software configurations, or just prefer off-the-shelf approach.

Greg

[at0m]

If something doesn't work, you drop it at the Apple Store and they fix it or sell you an upgrade But yea, having a single address for support and gear appears to do the trick for most people that I know who want "something that just works" - although IMO it comes with a hefty price: the price for not having to know all the nitbits of ones machine to fix it if things go wrong.

[Neutron]

If you are a company that has a big pile second rate component which nobody else will touch (such as jmicron based SSD or Nvidia chipsets) apple can sell them for you at a premium!

[kylie]

otherwise, i'd spend that same money on a pc, i'd build it carefully, with good parts, set it up properly, buy some extra programs and/or studio gear(XITE downpayment?) with the $2000 i saved(assuming i'm getting a top notch system and not an iMac equivalent), and get to work...

...and if you're not familiar with any of the procedures like selecting parts, assembling them, setting up the system, finding drivers et al, or if you're just fed up with doing so, there is that fruity company to sell you the worry-free-everything-inside package, and I like to think they do this job quite well.

[garyb]

otherwise, i'd spend that same money on a pc, i'd build it carefully, with good parts, set it up properly, buy some extra programs and/or studio gear(XITE downpayment?) with the $2000 i saved(assuming i'm getting a top notch system and not an iMac equivalent), and get to work...

...and if you're not familiar with any of the procedures like selecting parts, assembling them, setting up the system, finding drivers et al, or if you're just fed up with doing so, there is that fruity company to sell you the worry-free-everything-inside package, and I like to think they do this job quite well.

no arguement there. of course, one can hire me for much less...

[kylie]

no arguement there. of course, one can hire me for much less...

not if you put travelling expenses on the bill. well, for me, that is

[garyb]

i don't need to travel! we can talk via skype if you want to do the actual work! or...

[kylie]

although your input is always much appreciated I'm into building machines myself for 15 years now. and all of my own creations still work (although I can't say I'd use most of them a lot).
but I was tempted more than once to buy a (used) mac just for playing around with it, and to get an idea what this fan-boy-ism is all about...

[Fede]

Sorry to disagree, but I don't feel any of the previous comments to be honest.

I'm a programmer and I own pcs and macs.

IMO There's a real advantage which was understated that is truly not having to deal with Windows.

Windows is a total big mess in a way that is unbelievable until you know how it is structured. From the hardware management to the user interface it always surprises me being the stupidest thing possible. It is designed simply to work the worst possible in any scenario. Nor MS will ever complete anything, they'll make a new inefficient, unreliable and over-bloated os every three years... It is almost a miracle if it manages to work the way it does.

Sadly the only viable alternative for audio currently is osx.

And letting a part hw/assistance related things, working on a mac is like using a telephone or a calculator: indeed very, very boring

...nothing happens when you are doing things, no popups, no windows stealing focus from the app you're using, no driver problems of any kind, no infinite loading times with idle cpu, no programs blocking the entire system, no continuous internet access for every stupid action, no latency in system audio driver = *no need for asio* (yes, the audio hardware is the same integrated chip on the motherboard), no need for restart for everything, no explorer crashes....

...is it enough? I can go on for hours enumerating.

yes, sometimes THERE ARE BUGS, some rare times even serious ones.

....and no, I'm not a mac fanboy, I'm a person who simply makes a living with windows software programming for a well known multinational corporation MS certified partner.. bla... bla...

Fede

[garyb]

Fede, i agree. still, an XP machine set up for audio is plenty stable and does just about the same amount of work as a Mac.

[iSiStOy]

First, I must say I don't really know about the mess devs tools for mac can do when installed on a stable new install but doing both devs and music under Windows, there is for sure no other choice but to work on a separate os.
... if only Rosegarden could compete with Cubase in terms of midi and if we had drivers for Scope, I'd be ready to go for a Ubuntu Studio 8 as a dedicated system for music...

[kylie]

... if only Rosegarden could compete with Cubase in terms of midi and if we had drivers for Scope, I'd be ready to go for a Ubuntu Studio 8 as a dedicated system for music...

ubuntu studio has gone karmic already, in case you didn't notice (9.10, that is)

[iSiStOy]

I noticed because of you and a friend of mine who had trouble with it. If RT kernel is reliable, then this would be the one, but anyway: we can't even try with our scope boards.
Maybe later...

[auricle]

I wish there was more support for audio under linux as well. Scope coupled with Ardour (with MIDI support) would be awesome. Reaper for PC running under WINE runs quite well under linux - along with many PC plugins (winevst).

As far as the average musician goes - I think your choice of platform (Mac or PC) depends on what software you'd like to run. If you want to run Logic, Numerology or Metasynth - choose Mac, obviously. It gets more difficult if you want to use Cubase as it is supposed to run better under Windows compared to multi-cored Macs although Steinberg have promised to improve the performance in a future update. If you want to use Sonar, FL Studio, Samplitude, etc. then you need Windows. Currently, if you wish to use Scope you need 32bit Windows. SC promises OSX and 64bit drivers but I wouldn't hold my breath for them anytime soon.

I recently set up a Hackintosh using a retail Leopard on a self-built machine. Overall OSX is a nice user experience but not without it's quirks. I think that application management is a mess (everything is kept in the applications folder and although it's possible to create sub-folders it may cause problems when you update some software) and the fact that there is no system for uninstalling applications came as a big shock for me. Everything else was nice. There are some issues with certain applications that I use on Mac that do not exist for Windows (Cubase, as I've mentioned, and E-On Vue).

As for me, I'm still waiting for my Xite-1 to be delivered so while I'm waiting I've built a new Windows 7 based machine for it and my sequencer of choice (Cubase). I'm keeping the Hackintosh for Metasynth (I love that program) and Numerology (ditto). BTW, Numerology is the best step sequencer program I've ever used!

[astroman]

...
What remains is Fede's comment on usability and simplicity.
Sorry for not buying the story completely.
On a MAC the Softwares that are apple and 'certified apple' run smoothly, ok.
Thats part of the integration tax you pay.
As soon as it comes to variety it looks not much better than with windows, cause it is not foreseen...

sorry to disagree (you expected it anyway, didn't you ?), but those are the wrong conclusions imho
It's not the 'integration tax' but Apple's hardcore type of disciplining developers.
They are not as consequent with their guidelines as during early years of the Mac, but most likely kept it up as a kind of 'in-house culture'.
The majority of Windows programmers isn't used to that at all and so are linuxers - you perfectly named the result

cheers, Tom

[erminardi]

Fede, what kind of PC are U using?!?!?!
My PS's are rock solid, (XPsp3), no problem since years!
My server (P4 1.5ghz, XPsp3, AVASTpersonal AV) works 24h/24 since jan 2007 without one virus and never crashed (only 2 times but beacuse my wrong esperiments).
My 2 PCs for audio are well working... 16 or 32 stereo tracks with VST plugins, 3 scope and 2 UAD, one, now with 1 X-ite.
I'm ok with PC.
I use Mac in my graphic studio and I think that are almost the same... hey, warning, virus for Apple MAC OSX exists!!!! So use antivirus!!!

Sorry to disagree, but I don't feel any of the previous comments to be honest.

I'm a programmer and I own pcs and macs.

IMO There's a real advantage which was understated that is truly not having to deal with Windows.

Windows is a total big mess in a way that is unbelievable until you know how it is structured. From the hardware management to the user interface it always surprises me being the stupidest thing possible. It is designed simply to work the worst possible in any scenario. Nor MS will ever complete anything, they'll make a new inefficient, unreliable and over-bloated os every three years... It is almost a miracle if it manages to work the way it does.

Sadly the only viable alternative for audio currently is osx.

And letting a part hw/assistance related things, working on a mac is like using a telephone or a calculator: indeed very, very boring

...nothing happens when you are doing things, no popups, no windows stealing focus from the app you're using, no driver problems of any kind, no infinite loading times with idle cpu, no programs blocking the entire system, no continuous internet access for every stupid action, no latency in system audio driver = *no need for asio* (yes, the audio hardware is the same integrated chip on the motherboard), no need for restart for everything, no explorer crashes....

...is it enough? I can go on for hours enumerating.

yes, sometimes THERE ARE BUGS, some rare times even serious ones.

....and no, I'm not a mac fanboy, I'm a person who simply makes a living with windows software programming for a well known multinational corporation MS certified partner.. bla... bla...

Fede

[Fede]

Fede, what kind of PC are U using?!?!?!

Sorry, but I've that bad habit of using pcs for work, or repairing them for family, friends, co-workers, passersby... and developing software.

I simply should get high, make music with SC cards on Windows XP and say it's all good!