how powerfull is a pulsar2 card?please help

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 8:18 am

I havent bought one yet but i was concidering it strongly 'till i started
browsing this site.
I saw in cw's site or in an ad i don't remember that a single shark has the prossesing power of a G3 mac ,however after
reading the posts over here i discovered that
most of the soft synths available have very
limited polyphony and are extremly dsp "hungry", this makes me wonder thank knowing that most of the hardware synths around certainly dont use 6 dsp's and are
severly more powerfull at least in modulation options, is this perhaps due to
careless programing from cw or what?
Please help , i am still concidering the card
but i am a little disapointed

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 1:15 pm

i have 7 sharcs (pulsar I and luna II).
polyphony limit on any synth is 16 voices. you can acheive this no problem with the EZ-synth. the most complex synth i know of on pulsar is Zarg's Ambient. I can get 6 voices on that. I can get 10 with the Rotor 48 v3.1.1 -

the reason they are dsp intensive is the *quality* of the synths - 32 bit processing. they sound good - this is the most important thing. VST synths tend to get higher polyphony, but sound real wimpy, generally speaking, IMHO.

i do not think it has anything to do with poor programming. check out the Oasys by Korg for a comparison. I have heard that pulsar wins out on polyphony, but i dont have an Oasys.

you may get better modulation on some HW synths, but believe you me, the Gemini and Ambient have quite extensive modulation. AND THE MODULAR 2 - talk about options! cannot be compared to HW synths. Also, you will likely get more voices on HW synths. It is a price point though - consider buying nice HW synths - you'll spend more than $1,000 US for good one. With CW, you will spend the same for pulsar II, sure, you will have less polyphony, but way more than 3 synths from which to choose!!! you could get a SCOPE SRB and Pulsar II for the price of about 3 HW synths, but the CW setup would shoot the HW out of the water, hands down, IMHO.

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 1:17 pm

and last time i checked, synths are not given away in the HW world as they are by developes for pulsar like defex and wavelength!

Post by **garyb** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 4:56 pm

yeah well,
a lot of people just complain.pulsar is CHEAP for the job that it does and i've definitely seen it improve since my purchase of the card.it is not what it isn't so one could be disappointed, but then some never expected january 1 2000.

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 5:48 am

Thanks algo and garyb for your reply
I'm NOT posting in this site to complaint though i am just expressing some thoughts to
pulsar users that can help me deside whether or not should i go for a pulsar2 card.
algo you said that you can get 16 notes polyphony from most of the synths ,but does this mean that you'll have to dedicate all your dsp to one synth or can you achieve this using more synths or effects e.t.c.
The thing is that when i first heard about
pulsar i thought that it was a small version of scope which is a sounddesign tool thats why i expected more in the modulation department.My interest is not if the pulsar is a cheap solution but whether or not does it have extensive and rare synthesis not found in many hd synthesisers .I mean that
certainly with the srb board you get 21 sharks in the cost for three hardware synths
however if those synths are the microwave xt ,kawai 5000s ,ultra proteus and/or fs1r (like in my case)
how could this compare to them .Ambient ,sts-5000,and gemini are very interesting tools
but apart from that i only see some analog emulations.
Perhaps there is a software package like the one in scope with wich you can craft your own synths?I dont know perhaps i am asking for too much,but looking at some synths like
virsynth,reaktor,absynth,you get an apetite for more creative options.
By the way does anybody know how much would a scope system cost because we have a disrubuter over here in Greece but he is also known for "extreme " pricing
thanks for your help again

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 6:29 am

Seems to me you want to take a look at Pulsar running the Modular Version 2. This is the greatest system on Pulsar. You get dozens of different modules to hook up anyway you like. You can construct drum machines, sequencers, synths, wav players with various effects, voices, modulation etc. If you want choices this thing will keep you so busy experimenting you'll find it hard just to get back to writing music !

Pulsar does have limitations - just like any system. If you think you're going to run a mixer, drum machine, sampler and six synths on one Pulsar card then forget it (well, you might come close).

What I tend to so is construct a synth (using the Modular V2), give it at least six voices, then sample like crazy. Smooth and easy...

I know the cost argument doesn't seem to worry you (lucky), but my rationale went like this: For the money I could have bought one good hardware synth OR one good hardware sampler OR one high-end hardware "groovebox". Trouble is none of these things gave me what I wanted. For example, the MS2000 may be a nice synth, but what about drums. And only four voices! You're kidding! My search contnued along these lines with each option looking good in its own narrow field but losing out when I thought about all the different sorts of things I wanted to do. And I didn't want to spend too much. So I got Pulsar.

Over the years I've owned maybe thirty hardware synths and samplers and Pulsar is really one of the best devices I've ever bought. The sound is sweet and the flexability is incredible: one day a distorting lead synth, the next a pounding drum machine, the next a effects-heavy ambient wash.

Not for everyone - what devices is - but I love it.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 6:32 am

Have you had a look on the Modular V2 forum? There's quite a few pictures of devices and descriptions....

http://planetz.ghostwheel.com/phpBB/vie ... rum=15&155

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 8:00 am

16 voices meant all, or almost all voices dedicated to one synth - (except the EZ, which does not use much) - frankly though, i do not use 16 voices ever; i would rather have 4-8 voices on a few synths each.

the modular 2 cannot be overstressed here; as spirit says.

defex has made some sick synths! check out the transplanet and star synth and pxr5 for modulation! especially transplanet - very unique - i have never seen anything like that before, HW or SW.

cheers mate!

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 8:02 am

read below

for $3500 you could get a pulsar II, and scope srb ('twas what i meant)

[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2001-08-04 16:23 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 8:51 am

Scope/SP is $2995 Minimum Advertised Price
Scope/DP is more like $7999.

A Scope/SRB is more like $2333 MAP, but again, you can find it for less if you know where to click.

(edit: Summer Sale over now)

_________________
<a href=http://infinitevortex.com>Infinite Vortex Audio</a>

[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-10-01 15:34 ]

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 4:23 pm

Could you be a little clearer there, Seth? I'm not sure I caught where that discount CW stuff might be coming from.

I've gone through 3 microwave xt's, 4 fs1r's, & 2 k5000s's, so believe me when I say that I know those synths very well & definitely understand why you love them. I'll do a comparison of them one by one:

uwave xt: Waldorf actually made wavetable modules to be used in the Pulsar modular synth (either 1 or 2) so you really do effectively have a uwave built-in. Pulsar offers some extra routing flexibility & modulation sources that aren't in the uwave but doesn't have it's multi-segment envelopes & the sound isn't as thick. Also, there are some hard-wired synths, like the Level One, that use these wavetables mixed w/ standard oscillators, & I don't know why John Cooper never made an XT for Pulsar considering he's also a user (c'mon, John, I know you're into it).

fs1r: Pulsar has an 8-operator FM synth, FM One, but it's monophonic & doesn't have the formant filter. Unfortunately for the fs1r, it's formant filter is pretty much useless since Yamaha never released the software to edit it. I like the fs1r sound but it's interface doesn't even compare to Pulsar's.

k5000s: one of my favorite synths ever (I've only ever had 2 b/c I kept them each for a long time), it's completely on a different plane from Pulsar or any other synth out there so keep it & use it to control Pulsar.

With 8 DSP's, I was able to complete entire tracks without even worrying about running out of juice. I added a Luna II just to get the lower latency & because the prices are so insanely rock bottom on them now; it's more than I'll ever use.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 9:53 pm

& I don't know why John Cooper never made an XT for Pulsar considering he's also a user (c'mon, John, I know you're into it). 

I've actually spoken with John about this before, and requested it a few times on Pulsar-SCOPE... I guess the closest thing with be one of Celmo's devices or a Mod patch.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 2:31 am

I wonder what it was that turned Peripititus off Pulsar ? I know I've had a few harsh things to say in the past, but never about the actual system or the sounds it can generate, more about CW as a company.

Generally I think this forum is pretty positive...

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 10:03 am

Thanks for your help guys
Well i'm not completetly turned off from pulsar however last week i was certain that i would buy the product and then a guy in a post that i've made in s.o.s forum sent me over here for finding some replies concerning mostly the sts-5000 sampler.I was thinking about pulsar 2 to use it instead of a hardware sampler
and perhaps as an additional synth sourse
(i was impressed by the ambient synth which
has some interesting options).
I was mostly dissapointed because i had a different impresion about the power of a solely pulsar 2 card , i mean that i can't think of a hardware synth in the market that
offers 6 dsp's(perhaps the nord modular with
the expansion board)and when i saw standard
synthesisers like the bluesynth e.t.c. offering only 16 voice polyphony i was a little bit put off .I also understood that sts's formant correction and real pitch shifting relies on the power of my computer and not on the sharks which meant that i should upgrade my pc .Finaly there where
a lot of posts complaining about the synths offered (most of them in the "safe" side of synthesis,quarels about certain phasing problems in the mixers provided and posts about the loss in time and creativity .
I still concider the positive sides of pulsar 2 but
i'm thinking that perhaps i should wait
for version 3 to see what's in offer.
I still wish for more modulation options in the available synths (not only in the modular which of course is natural to have those options )even the sts-5000 could benefit from those because i think and correct me if i am wrong that they do not
pose a significant load on the dsp's
Thanks for your help again and by the way
any comments on the sts-5000 sampler ?
i have made an additional post for that by i did'nt seem to have any replies

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 11:36 am

The STS-5000 splits duties between the cpu & dsp's, it's an interesting situation that manages to put very little stress on either (so don't worry about the faster cpu, although you'll want to have a quality motherboard). Look at it this way: the Roland VP-9000 only has 6-voice polyphony & multi-timbrality while the STS-5000 can potentially get 64-voice polyphony (!) & 16-voice multi-timbrality. Also, I used to have a Nord Modular (& still have a micro modular) & it can't, in real use, get much more than 5-10 voice polyphony which isn't nearly as many voices w/ it's 4 Motorola DSP's as even a Pulsar 1 can get w/ 4 Sharcs.

Keep in mind that the Pulsar modular synth often uses considerably less DSP than any of the other synth devices, you'll notice that the people that complain about not getting enough voices w/ Pulsar are usually the ones who haven't delved into the modular at all. The modular 2 synth is amazing.

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 11:38 am

Also, I would recommend buying the more DSP-conservative STS-4000 & then upgrading to the STS-5000, that way you'll get both samplers. You can get 64-voices on 4 DSP's w/ the 4000 but I top out at around 42-voices w/ the 5000 on my 11 DSP's (keep in mind that the 5000 was intended for Scope SP users).

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:46 pm

or buy the sts3000 cuz it is on sale, then move to 4000, then to 5000 = same price - three sampler options

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:59 pm

hehehe, you could do that but I can't think of any benefit you would get out of having the 3000 along-side the 4000 (& you'd really be taking the piss at that point, my suggestion's already bad enough).

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 6:27 pm

I am thinking about the 5000 instead of a hardware equievelant and since in that price range i could go for a ultra series from emu
the only reason to choose the sts would be
the realtime pitch shifting and the formant correction algorithms so the 4000 and 3000 are out of the question, not to mention that
i prefer 25 filters to one.
By the way peezahj you get 42 voices using on all your programs those algorithms?
and what about your computer, this could be very usefull information

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 6:38 pm

I am starting to feel like a ballbreaker
however i was wandering.......
i have an external controler (regelwerk from doepfer)can i use to control(what else)
the sound parameters of the synths ?
could this apply to all of those parameters?