Frustrated with Scope - anybody feel the same?

[midiman]

This might be a bit harsh... read at you own risk

I've been using Pulsar II (+ synth & sampler pack) for a few years now and it has definitely given me numerous moments of pleasure with my productions... But occasionally this platform could drive me so nuts that I just wish I hadn't got it in the first place.
Now, I'm not so much of a Modular user, and I basically use Scope to get some load off my host CPU (not XTC) and add effects and so on. And of course - there's the Minimax which is great. The problem is the little things that frustrate me with this system..

1. Almost everytime SFP is initiated, it asks for allkeys.skf. sometimes repeatedly until it gets stuck.
2. The overall reaction time is so damn slow, and it's not even consistent. It looks like it's even affected by the host CPU load, which as far as I understand, should be entirely independent of...
3. The GUI is terrible. The buttons are NOT intuitive, the menus are cumbersome and the little sidebar is far more annoying than helpful.
4. You can't change project (or latencty) unless you close Cubase first. This is so frustrating. I often want to load a different project because I already have the wiring all set up for a certain sound that I want to record into Cubase - but I can't !!
5. Gaming sounds / Skype don't work well with this card (i've tried different settings)

Now I guess I can come up with more, but for the moment - these reasons alone are just enough to make me think "why bother?"...

Anyone has ever felt the same?

[faxinadu]

tbh, its a bit of a pointless discussion.

i have the scope and use it when it comes in handy.

when it doesn't i use some other tool.

its an aging platform and has its quirks, to me its still valuable.

[garyb]

are you a musician, engineer, and/or producer? if so, you will dedicate a computer to this wonderful card with such a fantastic, intuitive(imho of what a musician/engineer/producer would like) gui and be very happy.

for a general windows computer use(instead of music studio use), something else might be better. a scope computer really does need to be set up properly, although that's really a very easy thing to do...

[bill3107]

Like any Pro Tools station (for example), you must previously check what is the best configuration (motherboard especially). I have been a power user for years now without any problems as soon as i have followed this method... As for the GUI / interface... hum i would say that my rooting window is very handy too me ! Of course a uad board is very simple to use for example but cannot be compared in terms of price (price/number of plugins), flexivbility and tools (no mixers, synths, effects like scope) and in/outs (no converters). Scope system offers manay many things and a good aditional power to our computers so that the choice of your PC is very important ! My 100 euros board (intel DP965LT) does perfectly the job without any problem at all !

Jo

[firubbi]

format your c and install everything again might solve few problems you have. and
i guess nono of us bought pulsar for game.
thanks

[midiman]

Thanks for the honest answers guys.

[bill3107]

you are welcome midiman ! HAve a look at the forum to find out if there is any problem with your configuration. But as mentionned, a clean installation (please avoid internet ! ) can solve your weird problems ....

good luck !

[the19thbear]

I agree with the GUI, tis just too slow! and my pc asks for keys at the most random times as well, but overall , im SO happy with scope.. but YES! GUI is WAY SLOW!! i find it hard to edit eq's as easily as in cubase..
just my 2 cents..

[Lima]

Hi Midiman!
Just a couple of suggestion:

1. Almost everytime SFP is initiated, it asks for allkeys.skf. sometimes repeatedly until it gets stuck.

It happens to me only some times. About once a month, to give an idea.
I use to keep a copy of the allkey.skf in my scope directory, so I can fix the throuble in few seconds.
I think it's a installation issue anyway, because it happens only since my last installation...

2. The overall reaction time is so damn slow, and it's not even consistent. It looks like it's even affected by the host CPU load, which as far as I understand, should be entirely independent of...

Reverbs and other devices uses the pci bus of your machine and the Gui obviously uses the host's ram and cpu to work. There are chipsets that work better than others... Check the numerous topics about the Pc configuration... Just out of curiosity: Do you have a VIA chipset? They are terrible for our boards

4. You can't change project (or latencty) unless you close Cubase first. This is so frustrating. I often want to load a different project because I already have the wiring all set up for a certain sound that I want to record into Cubase - but I can't !!

This isn't true. You CAN change everything without restart the cubase.
The fact is this: when you change the ASIO module (load or unload, change project etc...) Cubase loose the asio connection. So you have to do the following:
Go to the device manager inside Cubase and under the menù "vst multitrack". You will see that the latency time is 0.00 that means "connection lost". So you have to change to another one (for example the Direct sound) and then re-change to the "asio scope". This forces Cubase to scan the asio interface and to get the new parameters.

This is a Cubase issue... not a Scope issue...

5. Gaming sounds / Skype don't work well with this card (i've tried different settings)

I haven't any thouble. Every game I've tried works great. Skype the same. You have to select the right OS configuration: Go to control panel -> sound configuration and select the "Creamware play/rec" for both default playback and recording device. Then make sure to have the "wave source" and "wave dest" module load inside your project and correclty routed to the phisical out

Hope this helps!!!

cheers

[midiman]

I agree with the GUI, tis just too slow! and my pc asks for keys at the most random times as well, but overall , im SO happy with scope.. but YES! GUI is WAY SLOW!! i find it hard to edit eq's as easily as in cubase..
just my 2 cents..

Need some Guru advice here I guess... is there a way to speed up the GUI latency?

[petal]

While I do recognize the problems you list up here I do not come to the same conclusion:

As has allready been said, the rule of thumb is to build a dedicated pc around your scope system, this will solve most of your problems .

Yes sometimes I'm asked to find my all-keys file when Scope starts up, but it's more like 1 out of 15-20, and usually after windows has been closed down with some kind of error.

And I also used to think the gui was too slow, but this has been solved with a faster GF's card, and it's not even an expensive one.

I believe you can change a project while running cubase, you just have to reselect which asio-driver you are using.

Gaming and Teamspeak I run on my onboard soundcard at the same time as I actually use Scope, thereby completely avoiding Scope for that sort of application. I too have experienced problems trying to use the Scope cards for that, but I don't expect them to handle this kind of job for me.

I've had a wonderful weekend making music using: Scope, Cubase 4, GigaStudio3 at the same time while running Eve-online in the background including TS. Only a few glitches entered the sound when I swapped between eve in fullscreen mode and Scope/Cubase, which really was to be expected.

Yes, Scope has its quirks but then again, so do I

[midiman]

Hi Midiman!
Just a couple of suggestion:

1. Almost everytime SFP is initiated, it asks for allkeys.skf. sometimes repeatedly until it gets stuck.

It happens to me only some times. About once a month, to give an idea.
I use to keep a copy of the allkey.skf in my scope directory, so I can fix the throuble in few seconds.
I think it's a installation issue anyway, because it happens only since my last installation...

2. The overall reaction time is so damn slow, and it's not even consistent. It looks like it's even affected by the host CPU load, which as far as I understand, should be entirely independent of...

Reverbs and other devices uses the pci bus of your machine and the Gui obviously uses the host's ram and cpu to work. There are chipsets that work better than others... Check the numerous topics about the Pc configuration... Just out of curiosity: Do you have a VIA chipset? They are terrible for our boards

4. You can't change project (or latencty) unless you close Cubase first. This is so frustrating. I often want to load a different project because I already have the wiring all set up for a certain sound that I want to record into Cubase - but I can't !!

This isn't true. You CAN change everything without restart the cubase.
The fact is this: when you change the ASIO module (load or unload, change project etc...) Cubase loose the asio connection. So you have to do the following:
Go to the device manager inside Cubase and under the menù "vst multitrack". You will see that the latency time is 0.00 that means "connection lost". So you have to change to another one (for example the Direct sound) and then re-change to the "asio scope". This forces Cubase to scan the asio interface and to get the new parameters.

This is a Cubase issue... not a Scope issue...

5. Gaming sounds / Skype don't work well with this card (i've tried different settings)

I haven't any thouble. Every game I've tried works great. Skype the same. You have to select the right OS configuration: Go to control panel -> sound configuration and select the "Creamware play/rec" for both default playback and recording device. Then make sure to have the "wave source" and "wave dest" module load inside your project and correclty routed to the phisical out

Hope this helps!!!

cheers

Thanks Lima.
I used to have a VIA chipset but I quickly realized it wasn't gonna work so I got an ASUS P4P800 (this was back in 2005...)
I'm now considering an upgrade but I'd like to know if a new mobo + cpu + ram (let's say - P35, E6750, 2GB) would make the GUI significanty smoother.
And on that note - is Cubase SX3 optimised for dual core?

Thanks for the other tips - I'll definitely give'em a try.

[bill3107]

here my intel DP965LT + 4 Go supertalent DDRAM + E6600 is working great and fast. No trouble with samplitude 9 Pro (and previously Nuendo 3)... I had a 2 slot intel (D975BX) which was perfect too (but 2 pci slots only ).

[okantah]

My guess is you need more information how to use that system,SCOPE system is SUPERIUOR,
sametimes there are some problems but not any of what you engage with now.
cheers

[spacef]

I agree with the GUI, tis just too slow! and my pc asks for keys at the most random times as well, but overall , im SO happy with scope.. but YES! GUI is WAY SLOW!! i find it hard to edit eq's as easily as in cubase..
just my 2 cents..

Need some Guru advice here I guess... is there a way to speed up the GUI latency?

with a midi remote controller.
The slow graphics is due to the mouse when it select a parameter for you to tweak. mouse has to go back to pc and back to scope for feedback. depending on the number of audio tracks it can slow down the operation.

You don't have that with a midi remote controller (control is immediate, even if sometimes, the graphic follows more slowly sometimes. but the sound reacts immediately).

I verify this everyday, as i am on ide hard disk .

a lot of vu meters at the same time also play a role in graphic slow down.

I don't have a problem at all with menus though.

Best regards

Mehdi

[spacef]

This might be a bit harsh... read at you own risk
4. You can't change project (or latencty) unless you close Cubase first. This is so frustrating. I often want to load a different project because I already have the wiring all set up for a certain sound that I want to record into Cubase - but I can't !!
Anyone has ever felt the same?

False !
I have cubase sx 2, and often have to switch from Scope to DP (dev and test etc) without never switching cubase off. Most of the time, cubase resychs by itself. Sometimes, I just have to reelect the driver in the hardware setup (choose asio scope, resych/ yes and then it is fine). Most of the time i do this while tracks are playing. No need to close cubase, that's just a loss of time.
If you are worried, save your cubase song before changing your project (what you should do anyway).

[spacef]

5. Gaming sounds / Skype don't work well with this card (i've tried different settings)

False, any game works fine here (i play sometimes, it always work, generally sound is directx, ie, wave driver). I don't use skype but sometimes i talk to far away friends with msn through a 32 bit mixer with my microphones and preamps. No problems at all

Your problem with all key will be solved by a clean install.

For the "live bar", it may be questionable that it is not "dockable", but in general, you fold it in a way that does not take space on the screen. (fully closed, or "vertical" ie you see only the devices mini-pictures.).

[bill3107]

hey medhi, do you also warm up your msn conversations with a little FAT ? ..

[dawman]

I am saddened by a fellow Scope users troubles.

If I ever heard a mastering quality VST sequencer, I would buy another. Cubase 4,Sonar etc. are great for a scratch demo IMO, but the trouble they cause far outweighs their necessity in my rig.

I play live for a bulk of my income, and when I do record it's usually on a console using another DSP based application.

I find that when everything involved in a production is DSP based, w/ select hardware, i.e. sequencers, reverbs, and analog consoles, it's a smooth quality experience.

The fact that Scope / Gigastudio DAW's work w/ 100% stability live is a testament to it's usefullness.


Hope You Have Better Luck In The Future.

[spacef]

hey medhi, do you also warm up your msn conversations with a little FAT ? ..

absolutely !