My Brotha's,
Gigastudio 3 Orchestra had the GigaPiano II included, that has the GigaPulse Convolution Modeller which does a pedal up / down resonance which is fantastic sounding, and gives great sense of realism to other pianos as well. But the GigaPiano samples were made with that, and it sounded really bright, and well recorded, but it was just too overbearing with it's high at hard velocities. I tried VST EQ's, and all of CW's stock EQ's, and even Celmos Pultecator, but had no luck finding the right treatment.
On the Graphic 31S I thought I could dial in the cuts, as it needed no boost, but when I cut the frequencies that corresponded with the octaves of the piano, the result was cuts of the highs in the lower octaves which was undesirable also. So I gave up on GigaPiano and used a Steinway Upright sample that needed nothing added to it. But I needed a solo Grand piano for some upcoming work and kept trying different samples but refuse to buy more pianos. I was actually going nuts trying to find the right sounding solo Grand. Since GPII had such a great sound, but way to bright and unrealistic, I thought I'd try using the High Cut S filter. Immediately I noticed a slight roll off of the 20K range worked right away. So I then thought I would try the Graphic 31 again and it discolors the sound too much. Pultec adds too much color, and other filters muffle the sound too much. This sample needs a super accurate surgical EQ that doesn't color the sound.
I have no trouble tweaking freq's on any other instruments, but have realised that a filter / an accurate surgical EQ could take this offensive, but beautifully recorded piano and make it happen. This has to be difficult to re correct a sampled instrument, but I believe it could be awesome if I could find an EQ that doesn't color the sound at all.
Since EQ'ing Is Not A Problem, I Thought That General Disscussion Was The Place.
Any Experience w/ Mic'ing A Piano, Or EQ'ing sampled Content ?
Thanks,
Filter EQ Combo
Hi!
NoteKick-module in the movamily would work, but is not flexible enough.
What about an EQ which changes its behaviour connected to the keyboard note(s) you play? O.K. there starts the problem... noteS. I could build an EQ which reacts to your playing. It should be possible to make it "polyphon"... hm, that's a cool idea I think - the first polyphonic EQ
... I allready did this for a very complex synthesizer I did not publish so far (because I'm working on some music with it on my own without wanting it's typical sounds to be open source too soon) with a 6db lowpass which damped higher tones (this is rather conventional for synths, I know). 6db lowpass is my favourite when it comes to as less colouring as possible. Problem with a polyphonic 6db filter is simply, that you loose more high tones the more keys you play... that's not good. I don't know how fast a parametric EQ will react on this while playin piano... maybe it'll sound too strange when it changes frequency...
A more complex thing like the tubeEQs without tube, 3 bands & being polyphonic could be the right choice. You could set the frequncy range which is to be damped & the amount & then with every note you play a filter is added ... but puh, it sadly would influence the whole range again although being polyphonic in itself. Best would be to implement it in the instrument
And again: it could be that it's not fast enough for decent piano-playing....
So in the end I think the most decent thing from my side could be MOVEQ+ with the MIdi-kick4 module with dialed in key-ranges which send a control signal to whichever parameter of the parametric EQs when keys in that area are played... I didn't test it with polyphonic playing, so it could behave strange then...
Martin
P.S. Midi-kick4 is velocity sensitive b.t.w. and may be used with tubeeq & those versions without tube too (e.g. 7mov which is faster as MOVEQ+) when using the sidechain control. => via Midi-kick4 set 4 areas on your keyboard and let them send envelope-control-signals to the 4 outpus of Midi-kick4. They will velocity sensitively spit out control signals which have to be connected to sidechain inputs of whatever device you want to cantrol with them: Let it be MOVEQ+ or 7mov or MuBaCo where you can variate EQ/band-gain now with your 4 (with 2 midid-kick4 it may be 8 areas...) keyboard sections dependend on velocity.
NoteKick-module in the movamily would work, but is not flexible enough.
What about an EQ which changes its behaviour connected to the keyboard note(s) you play? O.K. there starts the problem... noteS. I could build an EQ which reacts to your playing. It should be possible to make it "polyphon"... hm, that's a cool idea I think - the first polyphonic EQ
... I allready did this for a very complex synthesizer I did not publish so far (because I'm working on some music with it on my own without wanting it's typical sounds to be open source too soon) with a 6db lowpass which damped higher tones (this is rather conventional for synths, I know). 6db lowpass is my favourite when it comes to as less colouring as possible. Problem with a polyphonic 6db filter is simply, that you loose more high tones the more keys you play... that's not good. I don't know how fast a parametric EQ will react on this while playin piano... maybe it'll sound too strange when it changes frequency...A more complex thing like the tubeEQs without tube, 3 bands & being polyphonic could be the right choice. You could set the frequncy range which is to be damped & the amount & then with every note you play a filter is added ... but puh, it sadly would influence the whole range again although being polyphonic in itself. Best would be to implement it in the instrument
And again: it could be that it's not fast enough for decent piano-playing....
So in the end I think the most decent thing from my side could be MOVEQ+ with the MIdi-kick4 module with dialed in key-ranges which send a control signal to whichever parameter of the parametric EQs when keys in that area are played... I didn't test it with polyphonic playing, so it could behave strange then...
Martin
P.S. Midi-kick4 is velocity sensitive b.t.w. and may be used with tubeeq & those versions without tube too (e.g. 7mov which is faster as MOVEQ+) when using the sidechain control. => via Midi-kick4 set 4 areas on your keyboard and let them send envelope-control-signals to the 4 outpus of Midi-kick4. They will velocity sensitively spit out control signals which have to be connected to sidechain inputs of whatever device you want to cantrol with them: Let it be MOVEQ+ or 7mov or MuBaCo where you can variate EQ/band-gain now with your 4 (with 2 midid-kick4 it may be 8 areas...) keyboard sections dependend on velocity.
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ChrisWerner
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany/Bavaria
- Contact:
hi chris ...
have a look here for a 4 band dynamic parametric EQ ...
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20154
cheers
olive
have a look here for a 4 band dynamic parametric EQ ...
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20154
cheers
olive
Chris,
what's the main point with this idea is not the setting of min&max values (which would be an interesting feature of course) and the main point isn't the dynamic behaviour itself but the triggering of EQ-changes via keyboard = MIDI. Min & Max is set in the envelope of Midi-Kick4.
Midi-Kick4 is not just an idea: it's in de Movamily-package to be used at sidechain-inputs of any device which needs MIDI-controlled control-signal at sidechain.
My idea with the polyphonic EQ seems to be complete nonsense, as it sometimes happens with my ideas... It's possible and normal, to use such EQing within a synthesizer where that way EQsettings are relevant for each voice (each played voice, each a different EQ-setting). So it also refers to MIDI (note & velocity) controlled EQing I think which is a good idea for an instrument which you play via midi.
The problem is that once you left the synth with the audiosignals, all equing eqs all the sound and so a polyphonic EQ would distroy the whole signal I think.
So using 4 midi-triggered EQ-movements (with MIDIkick4 from the MOVamily) could be a solution without adding a seperate EQ for each voice while still having some control which EQ comes in at what note-area & velocity played.
Martin
P.S. And yes, the in the previous post mentioned dynamic EQ is a great device. Maybe thatone could handle jimmys problems because of it's excellent designed controlling possibilities & superb sound. He should give it a try.
what's the main point with this idea is not the setting of min&max values (which would be an interesting feature of course) and the main point isn't the dynamic behaviour itself but the triggering of EQ-changes via keyboard = MIDI. Min & Max is set in the envelope of Midi-Kick4.
Midi-Kick4 is not just an idea: it's in de Movamily-package to be used at sidechain-inputs of any device which needs MIDI-controlled control-signal at sidechain.
My idea with the polyphonic EQ seems to be complete nonsense, as it sometimes happens with my ideas... It's possible and normal, to use such EQing within a synthesizer where that way EQsettings are relevant for each voice (each played voice, each a different EQ-setting). So it also refers to MIDI (note & velocity) controlled EQing I think which is a good idea for an instrument which you play via midi.
The problem is that once you left the synth with the audiosignals, all equing eqs all the sound and so a polyphonic EQ would distroy the whole signal I think.
So using 4 midi-triggered EQ-movements (with MIDIkick4 from the MOVamily) could be a solution without adding a seperate EQ for each voice while still having some control which EQ comes in at what note-area & velocity played.
Martin
P.S. And yes, the in the previous post mentioned dynamic EQ is a great device. Maybe thatone could handle jimmys problems because of it's excellent designed controlling possibilities & superb sound. He should give it a try.
I just got the DAS bundle.
I have only tried 2 EQ's so far. The Polteq is very unique but I wanted to keep auditioning so I went for the A550, and immediately found it to be what I was looking for on the Steinway Upright Grand. It has four sweet spots that cover a couple of octaves each, it was so simple and fast. I started at the lowest octaves, and worked my way up. This is a great EQ for sampled pianos, perfect actually as it has "0 " artifacts. I never even installed the keys for the rest of them as I was having so much fun. I first had to give the samples some body w/ SpaceF's FATCS4, which is a Valve emu that gave the piano so much meat, and sustain, as it sounded great on Honky Tonk, but slow passages decayed too fast.
I am very impressed with the quality of DAS's work as this EQ basically walked it's way up and down the piano with pristine results.
When I first joined this forum I was always amused at the guys who were talking about EQ's and mastering, and I thought there's no way that these sound and work like a dedicated hardware EQ. On big FOH consoles, the more experienced engineers will get set, and use the EQ as a master fader as this doesn't affect the channel settings, or the gain structure, so I viewed a soft EQ as an overglorified tone control. That is far from the truth. The A550 is an awesome EQ for making sample content sound exactly the way you want it to.
I will try some more tomorrow as i can't keep from falling asleep, it was the 7 hours of playing piano that got to me, as I am recording music during the day that is not my cup of tea. So when I get home, I go to town on the ivories to forget my blah, blah day.
I advise anyone to buy this bundle as I think the RMX160, and A550 are worth the asking price by themselves. I still have 6 more to try. The Dyna looks very deep, and I will try to learn it, but Olive better be prepared to answer some PM's, as I took one look at this GUI and said............Damn.
DAS has managed to make something good sound even better.
I have only tried 2 EQ's so far. The Polteq is very unique but I wanted to keep auditioning so I went for the A550, and immediately found it to be what I was looking for on the Steinway Upright Grand. It has four sweet spots that cover a couple of octaves each, it was so simple and fast. I started at the lowest octaves, and worked my way up. This is a great EQ for sampled pianos, perfect actually as it has "0 " artifacts. I never even installed the keys for the rest of them as I was having so much fun. I first had to give the samples some body w/ SpaceF's FATCS4, which is a Valve emu that gave the piano so much meat, and sustain, as it sounded great on Honky Tonk, but slow passages decayed too fast.
I am very impressed with the quality of DAS's work as this EQ basically walked it's way up and down the piano with pristine results.
When I first joined this forum I was always amused at the guys who were talking about EQ's and mastering, and I thought there's no way that these sound and work like a dedicated hardware EQ. On big FOH consoles, the more experienced engineers will get set, and use the EQ as a master fader as this doesn't affect the channel settings, or the gain structure, so I viewed a soft EQ as an overglorified tone control. That is far from the truth. The A550 is an awesome EQ for making sample content sound exactly the way you want it to.
I will try some more tomorrow as i can't keep from falling asleep, it was the 7 hours of playing piano that got to me, as I am recording music during the day that is not my cup of tea. So when I get home, I go to town on the ivories to forget my blah, blah day.
I advise anyone to buy this bundle as I think the RMX160, and A550 are worth the asking price by themselves. I still have 6 more to try. The Dyna looks very deep, and I will try to learn it, but Olive better be prepared to answer some PM's, as I took one look at this GUI and said............Damn.
DAS has managed to make something good sound even better.
great news... I am very happy with those EQs and the reverb (rmx160) is just superb and has its own flavor ! really good job Olive... I beg to point out the fact that the brand new compressors are amazing too.
Initially, I was thinking about adding some hardware stuff for mixing but then A/D conversion becomes a problem (except if you have a lot of money !) . Since i use those EQ and comp (and a host of effects from Spacef), i have just dropped the idea... this allows me to stay in the digital domain with a very good quality. Make us dream again Olive ! I have the impression that since the P100/A100 reverbs, prices for scope plateform are becoming more than democratic. Scope is just unbeatable in 2007 !!!!!!!!!!
Jo
Initially, I was thinking about adding some hardware stuff for mixing but then A/D conversion becomes a problem (except if you have a lot of money !) . Since i use those EQ and comp (and a host of effects from Spacef), i have just dropped the idea... this allows me to stay in the digital domain with a very good quality. Make us dream again Olive ! I have the impression that since the P100/A100 reverbs, prices for scope plateform are becoming more than democratic. Scope is just unbeatable in 2007 !!!!!!!!!!
Jo
Hi Jo, I'm sorry but I have to say this since you mention the RMX160 quite a lot saying it's amazing & low on dsp. The fact that it's low on dsp doesn't mean that it's a good substitute for Warp69's P100 (which I've read you suggesting here on the forum), but I suppose as always it's each to their own on such a subjective matter. In fact, If I were speaking my mind, I'd go as far as to say that there's better free reverbs than the RMX160 available. Sorry if that seems like an unjustified thing to say & I know that it may be wrong of me to do so, but when you compare several different reverbs for Scope including the free ones, you should be able to hear what I'm talking about. The RMX is indeed a reverb, but one of the best? I don't think so.
cheers,
S
cheers,
S
HI ALL
thx again for the support
@ shroomz ...
but after all, you can think what you want !
BTW ... Thx again for all "other" supports ...
cheers
olive
thx again for the support
@ shroomz ...
very strange post ... indeed ... and more ... from a developper !Sorry if that seems like an unjustified thing to say & I know that it may be wrong of me to do so
but after all, you can think what you want !
BTW ... Thx again for all "other" supports ...
cheers
olive
i am open to other ideas of course and you are right it is so subjective... You know i am an addict of P100/a100 reverbs. Martin did a great job and he gave me good tips to avoid the pci overflows... I am just saying that the P100/A100 are a must have. And the RMX 160 too. They are just different. I am just talking about plugins i do have, point. I am just saying (as a soniccore fanatic though ) both reverb are excellent. Ask those who have it (the others won't have too much to say of course... ) they offer different flovors with an excellent sound. Since i have used the DAs and the STW reverbs, i have dropped the idea of using an hardware reverb (because of A/D conversions as explained). I am not fond of the masterverb pro but that's a good one though. I just prefer an AMEK preamp or a Phoenix comparing to an Avalon too...
You are right though... When it comes to reverb it is just a matter of taste. Your music will sound different from mine that's exactly what we are all looking for !
Jo
PS : but of course, if you have a good free reverb (for scope), just let me know !
) both reverb are excellent. Ask those who have it (the others won't have too much to say of course... ) they offer different flovors with an excellent sound. Since i have used the DAs and the STW reverbs, i have dropped the idea of using an hardware reverb (because of A/D conversions as explained). I am not fond of the masterverb pro but that's a good one though. I just prefer an AMEK preamp or a Phoenix comparing to an Avalon too... You are right though... When it comes to reverb it is just a matter of taste. Your music will sound different from mine
that's exactly what we are all looking for !Jo
PS : but of course, if you have a good free reverb (for scope), just let me know !
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hubird
If you really think so, you still don't have a clue about how an independent internet message bulletin works, and even is explicitely intended to work.sonolive wrote:@ shroomz ...
very strange post ... indeed ... and more ... from a developper !Sorry if that seems like an unjustified thing to say & I know that it may be wrong of me to do so
You design plugins, we comment them - as good or as bad, rightly or even wrongly argumented.
You may disagree with the comments, you may wanne explain why you think it's untrue, but you can't reasonably say that a (very polite) post by Schroomz is 'very strange'.
It's what we do here - posting messages, and some are aiming at your plugsins.
What is 'strange' about that?
About the reverb: I have a pm from someone (else than S.) who tested it deeply, and he was very negative about it (crap actually).
I don't know myself, as I don't bother about DAS products, but as you (Olive) can see: some people like your plugs very much (Bill, S4L, etc.), others think they are moderate or even crap.
That's exactly how it works for NI, EMU, and any company of the world: some like it, some don't.
You call that strange?
I'd call that naming strange.
cheers.
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hubird
i cannot stand this kind of behaviour... Have you ever seen Martin (STW), Spacef, Celmo, ... criticize the work of other developpers ??????????????? Never, because these guys are professionnal like DAS staff is. Deontology and intelligence would help a developper (how good he is) to avoid comments about other developpers. Man, are you under 13 ?????
We all love music, we have ears and a brain in a middle... So listen, try demos and avoid a stupid BUZZ by sending PM (to me or others) and talk about plugins you have never tried !!!!!!!!
I know personnally Hans Zimmer who told me that Shroomz plugins were very bad... and he told me that Hubird and Shroomz were the same personn, a druncky 24 years old guy. Annnnnd Hanz (i call him this way as we are good friends) told me that this guy has just a luna in a P3 computer ..... BUZZ and stupidity are so easy ... almost funny...
Com'on guys just play and listen to music, buy what you want and do not spend too much time on Internet ! ANd give us a screen copy of the plugins you really have and just talk about what you have listened.
I am fed up with this behaviour !
Jo
We all love music, we have ears and a brain in a middle... So listen, try demos and avoid a stupid BUZZ by sending PM (to me or others) and talk about plugins you have never tried !!!!!!!!
I know personnally Hans Zimmer who told me that Shroomz plugins were very bad... and he told me that Hubird and Shroomz were the same personn, a druncky 24 years old guy. Annnnnd Hanz (i call him this way as we are good friends) told me that this guy has just a luna in a P3 computer .....
BUZZ and stupidity are so easy ... almost funny...Com'on guys just play and listen to music, buy what you want and do not spend too much time on Internet ! ANd give us a screen copy of the plugins you really have and just talk about what you have listened.
I am fed up with this behaviour !
Jo
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hubird
you are making a mistake.bill3107 wrote:So listen, try demos and avoid a stupid BUZZ by sending PM (to me or others) and talk about plugins you have never tried !!!!!!!!
I was not talking about a plugin, I was in fact talking about the public relationship between (pro) developers and the usual members on an internet forum.
Schroomz was indeed talking about a specific plugin.
Nothing wrong with that, he's one of us, and got to be a developer of free plugins. So?
That doesn't mean he should stay silent on plugs that are being discussed.
Hans is also making a mistake.
Schroomz and I are the same??
So, back in those days we were fighting eachother while being the same person?
Wish I was still 24 tho
no hubird, that's just 2d degree (or 3d ) ... just wanted to point out that messages have an influence upon what people think about the others and their work. I think it is fair to talk about what we have tested personnally.
Well, my initial intention was to point out the fact that we have very - within Scope - very good tools for mixing (it was not the case 1 or 2 years ago) : DAS, DEVICE, SPACEF, STW, CELMO, BRAINWORX, ADERN...
Jo
) ... just wanted to point out that messages have an influence upon what people think about the others and their work. I think it is fair to talk about what we have tested personnally. Well, my initial intention was to point out the fact that we have very - within Scope - very good tools for mixing (it was not the case 1 or 2 years ago) : DAS, DEVICE, SPACEF, STW, CELMO, BRAINWORX, ADERN...
Jo