Best Native FX

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:20 am

Hello Planet dwellers
would like your opinions on what native based FX or FX bundles could be added to Scope's, to have no rivals and truly complete a pro setup.

i would like the opinions of those who have mix/master pack or other scope plug ins and also those who just have and use the included effects extensions what they think.

what areas could scope fx use a little more oomph and could that be found in the optional plugs in designed for the platform we have now or would a better solution be outside of the platform?

Thanks

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:36 pm

No replies or opinions is actually very good. It tells me there really isnt any need to look for anything outside of creamware plug ins and fx to have what you need to be on par with pro studio's with physical hardware, is that the general feeling here?

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:50 pm

I think the only thing i do outside of scope is editing. Like I'll use the VST Drumagog for audio to midi. It's not actually an effect. I don't use any effects outside of scope.

EDIT: I should have said, I don't use any native effects. I'm not including hardware.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:02 pm

i'm not afraid to say it. my studio sounds great. if i was a better engineer it'd sound like a million dollars, really.

there are plenty of good vsts. sonalksis eqs would be nice added to scope, but not at all nessessary. between ison, wolfs(!) eq, celomo's pultecator, the DAS eqs, tha stock eq, etc., there are a lot of good eqs. it's not like the sonalksis eq is needed. actually, i have a number of bits of nice, real rack gear. i have the basic spx90s and lexicon lxp stuff. i have nicer stuff like the urei parametric and the orban parametric. strange things like the little(4 feet tall) portable plate reverb, a bunch of old rack delays, nice compressors like dbx160 and a 165, an older symetrix comp,a CAD comp, a urei 7110, some valley gatexs(nice gates), a dep 5 and a few other things, none are outrageous pieces, but all of them are things that have been used making real records, including the soundcraft 1600 desk and the 2" 24track scully that used to go with it. i almost never use any of that stuff. the computer does a better job easier, but i'm thinking i want to go do a bunch of mixes with that old stuff right now, just to use it.

all this stuff is in a tt bay on the mixer right by the 1/4" bay for the frontier ad/da. i have a whole lot of tt to 1/4" trs cables to patch that stuff right into my mixes. and actually, i'm not super likely to do that for my own work, but rarely if ever, for a client. no one ever complains.

the point of all this, is yes, with enough dsp, i'd say 10-15 minimum and more like 20-30 optimal for most work, and maybe a few additional plugins, most mixing needs will be well met by scope alone. all the rest, any additional plugins or hardware you use, will be for taste and variety.

as always jammoe.
JMO

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:17 am

The only area I know where Scope currently has a deficiency is with sample based manipulation. In terms of effects it means we only experience a paucity of convolution based devices. Altiverb, IR1, SIR, etc. With the internal latency of those devices & the speed of modern cpu's it's not as much of a loss as it would be. There are still excellent verbs on Scope as well, for instance the P100. Even the stock Masterverb is quite serviceable.

In fact I suppose there's no reason why a small impulse response might not be used in a device, as PSP and Voxengo both do, and the Liquid channel does, to achieve more natural saturation & compression models, but I don't know of a current device that does this.

Going beyond effects, STS samplers are nice if you're into the Akai paradigm they follow, but GIga, Kontakt or ShortCircuit etc. would still be useful for a sampler, STS5000's timestretch does sound better than Kontakt's to my ears though. Also, though you'll find the Scope Modular II & III are quite excellent for synthesis, a tool like Max or Reaktor will still be useful if you're into glitchy drum reprogramming or any extensive sample manipulation. Scope's sound quality is good enough I've not felt the need for tassman or any other native purely synthesis modular.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:51 am

imho Scope's 'out-of-the-box-sound' matches the typical 70's Jazz, Funk and Rock sound aesthetic - enough bottom and well balanced low mids.
As I'm not a big fan of eq-ing (it might be dialed in though), I'd rather add 'new' sources to extend the spectrum in a more 'modern' way, in those cases where it applies. For acoustic stuff Scope is almost unbeatable as it is, imho.

Strangely this 'solid bottom' and warmth is what most native processing lacks.
I have no technical explanation for the phenomenon, as (for example) devices like the NI FM7 can produce very deep and clean sounds and lots of shining highs, but they never sound as what's usually called 'beefy'.

On the other hand this makes it really easy to 'balance' Scope in a modern way, as almost any native device can provide the 'underrepresented' parts of the spectrum.
This tends to slightly artificial results, but seems to be exactly what's intended in a lot of contemporary productions.

On the synth and mangling side of sound I have CrusherXLive for that purpose (granular processing) and the ArtsAcoustic algorithmic reverb.
In particular the latter is ultra-tweakable in almost no effort and emphasizes exactly what Scope lacks - a perfect mixture.

It should not go unmentioned that a lot of things are possible simply due to a more responsive user interface in native processing. It may not even be the 'sound' itself, but access to it's parameters.
Tweaking drumloops with DevineMachine is an outstanding way of creative groove processing

cheers, Tom

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:00 am

Well, for reverb I use Anwida Soft's DX Reverb.

I don't get on very well with the reverbs which come bundled with either Scope or Cubase ("Reverb 'A'" LOL! But wait...there's "Reverb 'B'" too! ROFL!)

I do like the Sonic Timeworks ones, (in particular the 4080L) but out of all the
'verbs I've tried, I can 'dial in' Anwida's very easily and it sounds very fine to me. I find reverbs with 1,000 parameters very hard to get to grips with, despite the fact that they may be excellent tools.

I *think* that Sonic Timeworks do a Scope version of the 4080L but IIRC it is much more expensive than the VST/DX one. If ST matched the price then I would probably buy it as I would love to have a Scope-based reverb that I got on well with.

Besides that, pretty much 100% of the effects that I use are Scope ones. There are a few nice little VST freebies which I use (e.g. a reverse delay effect) which there doesn't seem to be an equivalent of for Scope.

There's also the SimulAnalog Guitar Suite set of VST effects which are really quite good (and free!) which I use sometimes.

HTH

Royston

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:26 am

In the Presets And Tools Thread there is a good sounding free reverb for SFP to use inside of a VST host. It has a simple GUI w/ just the right amount of controls. VST 3D Reverb from LHong, this guy from Silicon Valley, and a longtime member of the Z.

For Resource Conservation, and Ease Of Use, I Still Use Hardware via SFP.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:32 am

Thanks for that tip, I'll check it out!

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:39 am

For mentioning his device, LHong has made me a custom skin also, check it out.
Sucking cock sure pays off @ times.

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:47 pm

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:36 pm

thanks for all the feedback, this is great. It seems so far that reverb gets some varied opinions. Is it due to the demands reverb places on the computer, is it a valid consideration to find a good hardware reverb out of the box?

Post by **garyb** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:57 pm

yes. in scope it requires lots of channels between memory and dsp. that's the biggest problem. yes, hardware reverbs are probably best, although masterverb and the STW100 series reverbs by warp69 are top notch. the thing about reverbs is color and variety, so sometimes it's nice to use something different. you'll never have too many(

within reason...).

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:27 pm

A favorite of mine is the Alesis Q20. It sounds great, especially the plates. It hooks right up to Scope via ADAT. Then the budget MPX-220 from Lexicon is the last hardware unit w/ the Lexichip in it. I'd stay away from the newer VST / hardware Leixicons, as they are basically Digitech's, which sound cheap IMHO.
I use the Lexicon PCM-91 for any vocals, but synths and samplers do not need that much quality, just a splash of wet'll do just fine.

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:26 pm

So a good hardware reverb and one of the optional eq's would have you pretty solid as far as fx on a scope system goes?

Post by **garyb** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:48 pm

sure. and the transient designer and the bx digital and celmo's tape echo and spacef's black box and an old mxr delay....

well, start with warp69's p100. it's a really cheap reverb and i find it a basic essential(lexicon pcm plate for scope). it sounds like a million $. i don't think you can get a better verb for that money.

DSP ADD!CT · Post by **DSP ADD!CT** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:50 pm

imo the "budget" hardware reverbs arrent that amazing compared to software reverbs. i had a lexicon mpx 500 but i sold it and use vst reverbs now(wizoo w2, waves ir1 etc.)
lexicon mpx1 is ok but u need the pcm series for the real thing and those are very expensive.

for delay i use the psp 84 vst alot.

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:09 am

i feel ya GaryB, gear lust is a real epidemic, somebody needs to find a cure. I have read thru a lot of discussions about the P100 reverb you mentioned and all of them were positive, where can i find more info about it?

I have also in the forums read that the IR1 is really a good one to look into, and i agree DSP the really good lexicons ARE expensive and when you are on a budget you reach out as far as you can and grab what's within your grasp.
Man, gear lust really sucks!

So how do you judge a really good reverb by sound or by the ability to really tweak it to get what you want? Your opinions.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:03 am

I agree with Gary on that ...you really can't have enough reverbs...

(btw I also have an SPX90 and I'm looking for a Lexicon of the LXP series or the Vortex or the nubus version of the 300... I have an Ibanez Echomachine pedal, recently added a Boss RRV10 ...etc)
On Scope I have the STW100 series, PT2010, Celmo's TapeEcho, SpaceF's Echo3 and Masterverb. The RMX by DAS would also be an excellent choice as it doesn't duplicate any of the afforementioned devices.
For 'clean' and more high-mid stuff I have the ArtsAcoustic, preferably for large spaces.

First of all, regarding the P100/CD100 - that's a no-brainer
in particular the 'bundled' Chorus-Delay is almost magic - it's THE big exception from a famous rule of thumb - here it's shit in - gold out

The plate is perfect imho and the chorus-delay IS at least on par - on Protools they would sell each for 398 Euro and get raging reviews... if it would run on Motorola...

get it as long as they don't change their mind !

I've mentioned it a couple if times that the STW A100 (Ambience) has the strange ability to 'smooth' out a signal in a way typically associated with expensive analog gear - just a bit of ambience seems to polish the sound.
It rules in small rooms - big ones are also nice(of course), but in the small domain it outperforms anything.

I may pick one reverb for this and one for that, but in particular in SFP it's very easy to use them as a sound designing tool.
Not necessarily for wiered stuff, but it's interesting to send a slightly trashy guitar treated by the 12 bit Boss outboard thing into a precision space created by the A100 - or have the outboard thing in the feedback loop of Echo3, or an Echo3 in itself etc...
Since it's about delay effects you can have as much parallel as you like (or your DSPs allow) - phase doesn't matter in this context, as it's altered anyway

imho this is one of the strongest sides of SFP - you can easily try out creative things and a/b them, and I bet you'll end with more individual sounds than any other system could deliver

cheers, Tom

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:24 am

Counterparts wrote: I *think* that Sonic Timeworks do a Scope version of the 4080L but IIRC it is much more expensive than the VST/DX one.

I sent ST an email yesterday about this and got a response back today.

Apparently, the "Pulsar/Scope Pro Reverb " has exactly the same algorigthms as the 4080L, just a different looking UI.

Shame that they charge an extra $100 for the Scope version, otherwise I'd probably buy it