More specific questions about Scope and integration

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Hey, folks, well the last time I actually posted was LAST SUMMER, and I finally did end up selling my MachineDrum... but yada yada.

So I'm looking back at CW stuff again. Now this time let's forget about the fact that my mobo is probably the worst possible choice I could have gotten being a musician. (ASUS A8v with the fun and fantastic VIA chipset - will be replaced if bloody necessary.)

Here's what I've got on hand that I want to still use: Emu 1820m for the input, probably just aux sent via lightpipe into the CW card because AFAIK only one ASIO driver can ever be selected in Cubase... (so no assigning the 1820m inputs to some tracks, CW to others)...

NovaMusik has the Project card with both the plugin packs and an A16U right now for 1399, which is a sick deal imo. The Pro card is 1499 and the A16U 799. SRB for 1099.

What I'm seeing is, the Project deal right now would be an jump into CW - but I am pretty reliant on the two mic pres on the 1820m right now to do demo recording for my band's writer. Still, 1399 for 6 chips and the ADDA (and plugins) then another 1099 for a SRB is 2500 for 21 chips vs. 2300 for the Pro card and the A16U bought separately. $200 for 7 sharcs sounds significant.

Am I going to be running out of DSP pretty quickly with just 6 chips? It seems pretty lightweight. I would prefer not to go right out and buy the SRB if I can spend some time learning the CW system on the Project.

Is the addition of the SRB going to be a near 1 for 1 ratio on number of chips? Some of the threads here concern me (especially from srb4live) that additional dsp boards don't necessarily make that big of an impact, and it is for this reason and this reason alone that I'd seriously consider getting the pro board now.

For you guys who do guitar and vocal recording into an ADDA without pres, what are you using?

I wish there were a way that I could have the 1820m be friendly with the CW because frankly it's enough analog IO for me, and convenient having the pres and the RCA inputs on the back.

Also, I currently write and mix in Cubase SX 3 (haven't even bothered with 4 yet) but do not NECESSARILY care about running in XTC mode. I just want the most bang for the buck, using as much hardware and software that I already own to lessen the amount of crap that I have sitting around. Read some threads about a Nuendo user's heartaches that XTC wasn't working exactly as he wants, and it is kind of disturbing.

Any technical thoughts and suggestions here would be great. I've already been sold on the SCOPE platform for a while, so I'm really just trying to overcome my biggest hurdle with the cards - which has always been appropriate analog inputs. And if anybody is using the 1820m in the same box, especially if you've got routing working without using a lightpipe cable and just using the breakout box as a passthru AD device, please hit me up

Thanks very much,
ums

[Mr Arkadin]

There's a lot in there. Here's what i would do:

Check the CW page - they have some offers on the various boards at the moment, see how they compare with what you've been quoted.

Ditch the Emu. Get a half-decent pre-amp (any standalone box will do better than a card's pre-amp). Plus it's another unnecessary headache - you have all the in and outs you need on SCOPE. At the moment i just use the Pre-amps on my Mackie mixer, not great but better than a card i'd imagine.

Get a 14 DSP card - you will feel the difference. Not sure which scope4live reference you are talking about - maybe you misread him. More DSPs is better. i have 23 DSPs.

i use a Podxt Pro to get my guitar into SCOPE (it has AES outs - very handy). Talking of AES, remember you can get SCOPE in balanced or unbalanced. The choice is yours. i went balanced but remember this comes with AES rather SPDIF digital connectors.

Don't bother with XTC mode. SCOPE mode is much more fun and far more flexible (you just have to think of it as hardware - connecting a piece of wire from one deivce to another).

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Hi there, Mr. Arkadin.

I appreciate your reply. I'll definitely check and see what CW has direct vs. novamusik.

As for ditching the emu, the reason to ditch it will be primarily the fact that it would be an unnecessary headache. However, in its defense the 1820m not a card but rather a breakout box with very nice pres for the cost, not some crappy Creative Labs card (admittedly, this is up for debate, and compared to the MOTU 828mk2 I used to have, well). However, it would definitely be something else in the box that doesn't need to be there.

I do have my old Mackie mixer (ancient, dirty 1604) in the corner which would do, but I don't really have all the ins and outs I need on the SCOPE without a proper breakout box. I've got nothing with multichannel digital IO except the 1820m. The only instrument I use that has digital out is a Roland Fantom X6 (spdif). So I need at least 8 analog ins to be able to simultaneously multitrack.

I definitely want the 14 dsp card, if I can get a proper ADDA with it for a decent price. Otherwise, getting the 6 with an A16U and then adding a SRB card would give 21 DSPs for $200 more than getting the 14dsp card initially. My biggest regret would be finding out that having an initial 14dsp's is more important and more powerful than adding 15 to 6 due to bus issues.

The posts from scope4live were from last summer where he was saying that adding more and more DSPs to his box were not really coming out with the expected return in power. It may have been he was mixing type1 and type2. I do not know.

I'll see if my guitarists have anything besides their actual amps themselves that has preamped output. It's just very convenient now to be able to plug them into the 1820m pre. Not sure about which connections I'd get, that's always been up in the air. Probably unbalanced actually. I have a behringer vocal preamp that will work on that, so guitar would really be the only issue with getting something along the lines of an A16U. (just remembered that it is sitting here next to me)

Thanks,
Chris

There's a lot in there. Here's what i would do:

Check the CW page - they have some offers on the various boards at the moment, see how they compare with what you've been quoted.

Ditch the Emu. Get a half-decent pre-amp (any standalone box will do better than a card's pre-amp). Plus it's another unnecessary headache - you have all the in and outs you need on SCOPE. At the moment i just use the Pre-amps on my Mackie mixer, not great but better than a card i'd imagine.

Get a 14 DSP card - you will feel the difference. Not sure which scope4live reference you are talking about - maybe you misread him. More DSPs is better. i have 23 DSPs.

i use a Podxt Pro to get my guitar into SCOPE (it has AES outs - very handy). Talking of AES, remember you can get SCOPE in balanced or unbalanced. The choice is yours. i went balanced but remember this comes with AES rather SPDIF digital connectors.

Don't bother with XTC mode. SCOPE mode is much more fun and far more flexible (you just have to think of it as hardware - connecting a piece of wire from one deivce to another).

[hubird]

the pure SRB's are announced on Planetz by Creamware to be on sales this week

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Relevant to compare with novamusik:

CW offers,

Producer Pack - Scope project v4.5 + MnM + SnS pack2
888 Euros, or 1148 USD. So, for $250 more at novamusik one can get the A16U along with all this. To me a substantially better deal at NM.

Pro Pack - Scope professional v4.5+A16 Ultra+Prodyssey
1999 Euros, 2584 USD. Well, NM doesn't have the Prodyssey listed, but the Pro board + the A16 is $2300. The Prodyssey could be unlocked at CW for $128, so a slight advantage at NovaMusik.

--

Looks like the thing to do would be to pick up the Project + A16U + MnM/S+S pack at NM for 1399, then (sooner than later hopefully) get a SRB card to jack up the power. But maybe that's just me.

[spacef]

The preamps on the emu card are pretty good for a card of this calibre (and owned by creative). The preamps were designed by ted fletcher of TFPro (ex joe meek designer), and are based on the "current sense" technology. A small preamp like the mq3 (that was under joeMeek brand) will be enough to replicate and enhance your 1820 preamps (adding optical compressor and equalizer). Otherwise, get the Joe meek 3Q or a presonus or anything like that (remember that noise levels on
curent sense preamp from tfpro or joe meek is extremely low).
That's what I have (an MQ3) and I also had an original VC1Q preamp: I sold the latter (the big one) , and kept the small one, which is really enough for recordings, is portable, and is excellent quality.
The problem on the EMU card is its drivers: i read a lot about apps that are not very stable on EMU drivers, but may be it is a problem particular to some users.
Good luck

[husker]

Don't forget to check out what deal jrrshop.com can do...they also have (I assume still do) a'forum' discount of 10%, just type in 'forum' in the coupon entry field.

If you are shipping outside the US, the shipping costs are usually much less than their shopping cart quotes (for some reason?).

Maybe Uncle Eric (from jrrshop) can comment?

Hello Eric! are you still around

[eliam]

You may want to check the lineaudio preamps www.lineaudio.se
I have one of their mics and it is top notch! Don't be deceived by the low price!

[eliam]

double post...

[areptiledysfunction]

Hey, folks, well the last time I actually posted was LAST SUMMER, and I finally did end up selling my MachineDrum... but yada yada.

So I'm looking back at CW stuff again. Now this time let's forget about the fact that my mobo is probably the worst possible choice I could have gotten being a musician. (ASUS A8v with the fun and fantastic VIA chipset - will be replaced if bloody necessary.)

Here's what I've got on hand that I want to still use: Emu 1820m for the input, probably just aux sent via lightpipe into the CW card because AFAIK only one ASIO driver can ever be selected in Cubase... (so no assigning the 1820m inputs to some tracks, CW to others)...

NovaMusik has the Project card with both the plugin packs and an A16U right now for 1399, which is a sick deal imo. The Pro card is 1499 and the A16U 799. SRB for 1099.

What I'm seeing is, the Project deal right now would be an jump into CW - but I am pretty reliant on the two mic pres on the 1820m right now to do demo recording for my band's writer. Still, 1399 for 6 chips and the ADDA (and plugins) then another 1099 for a SRB is 2500 for 21 chips vs. 2300 for the Pro card and the A16U bought separately. $200 for 7 sharcs sounds significant.

Am I going to be running out of DSP pretty quickly with just 6 chips? It seems pretty lightweight. I would prefer not to go right out and buy the SRB if I can spend some time learning the CW system on the Project.

Is the addition of the SRB going to be a near 1 for 1 ratio on number of chips? Some of the threads here concern me (especially from srb4live) that additional dsp boards don't necessarily make that big of an impact, and it is for this reason and this reason alone that I'd seriously consider getting the pro board now.

For you guys who do guitar and vocal recording into an ADDA without pres, what are you using?

I wish there were a way that I could have the 1820m be friendly with the CW because frankly it's enough analog IO for me, and convenient having the pres and the RCA inputs on the back.

Also, I currently write and mix in Cubase SX 3 (haven't even bothered with 4 yet) but do not NECESSARILY care about running in XTC mode. I just want the most bang for the buck, using as much hardware and software that I already own to lessen the amount of crap that I have sitting around. Read some threads about a Nuendo user's heartaches that XTC wasn't working exactly as he wants, and it is kind of disturbing.

Any technical thoughts and suggestions here would be great. I've already been sold on the SCOPE platform for a while, so I'm really just trying to overcome my biggest hurdle with the cards - which has always been appropriate analog inputs. And if anybody is using the 1820m in the same box, especially if you've got routing working without using a lightpipe cable and just using the breakout box as a passthru AD device, please hit me up

Thanks very much,
ums

I can only speak to your comment about the motherboard. I am running the same motherboard. It is the most stable DAW running native software (cubase SX) I have ever used in my entire life (and I have used quite a few). Pay attention to the IRQ's. You are welcome to send me a PM any time if you start having problems with this setup. I have been using the mobo for over a year and I know it's quirks fairly well. Check my signature below. This describes an extremely stable Scope system.

Regards,

[dawman]

UsedManateeSalesman,
What's the blue book value on a used Mantee? Great name there mate.

You did read my post correctly. I stated that 2 x 15 DSP cards are better than 1, but the third 15 DSP card just didn't give me what I expected. It was only a small increase. I have used Type I, and Type II, SRB's, in the 6 DSP, and 15 DSP version, and just prefer to use a combination that uses maximum DSP on 2 32 bit PCI slots. That third slot seems like you could use a 6 DSP card and see little or no difference between that and a 15 DSP card. I am not sure why, but I tried all combinations, and different motherboards also. I have 9 Creamware cards, 2 x 15 DSP DP cards, 2 x 15 DSP Type II's, 2 x 15 DSP SRB Type I's, 2 x 6 DSP Type II's ( classic ) and a 6 DSP SRB Type II. So as you see, it was easy 4 me to draw a conclusion. So since most new guys always buy a Luna, or a Project card when starting off, I thought it would be helpful to tell them to go big after that. I wish someone would have given me that tip. IMHO the third slot could be filled with a Luna, or Project card that adds extra I /O 's, as the difference between the three sizes in the third PCI slot is minimal at best.

Hope This Helps,

[CarvinGuitarFreak]

Hi
I dont know if you have seen these: Its about the 1616m preamps and using the 1616m with creamware.

http://www.productionforums.com/viewtop ... ter&t=6371
http://www.productionforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6973

Hope this helps?

I have a JoeMeek VC3Q, they're very good , cheap and deep

CGF

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Wow, I've been kind of busy the last few days with the holiday in the US. I'm pretty floored by the helpful responses here.

Will post some more later (regarding the resale value of used manatees especially), but I'm definitely interested in getting the details on the JRR discount if there's anything more necessary than putting in "forum" in the coupon code box.

This deal: http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=6510 looks to be a possibly better startup idea than the one from Nova Musik. 1999 (prediscount) for a Scope Pro card, A16 Ultra, and a prodyssey license . If I can get that with 10% discount, $1800 for that seems very very good, and I hope 14 chips is a good amount of DSP to get keep me going for a while.

(this would come out to 14 chips with the ADDA for 1800 vs 21 chips + breakout for 2500... hrm. 21 chips still sounds like a good idea.)

Heavy users, what do you think? Based on what Jimmy V has experimented with, it seems like the cutoff number for decent DSP returns is around 36 chips... 2 large + 1 x 6chip. Actually, for the difference in that ($700) I could almost get another project card, and would have the odyssey emulator to boot.

Nice.

Regarding some of the other hardware you guys have mentioned, these look like excellent solutions. I did see that forum post where the guy was using the 1616 breakout box to route directly to the CW card, which is where I got my idea to use my 1820m. However I will probably need to pull that out to make plenty of room for the CW card, in the vent I need to switch slots on this stupid via mobo (if it even works here). Might put it in my old athlon 1700 machine as a dedicated 8 track, or simply as a power supply (the box) to pass 8 more channels via lightpipe into creamware .

Thanks folks... any thoughts on that JRR deal and discount info? Haven't heard anything from the person that you mentioned but he may have been out of town this week as well.

Chris

[nprime]

As to an 8 channel AD/DA with mic-pres, the Behringer ULTRAGAIN PRO-8 DIGITAL ADA8000.

It fits the bill nicely and can often be had used for around $200-$250.

I have one and I am happy with it.