fatten up kick and bass

fidox · Post by **fidox** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:50 am

hi there !

i'm still missing in my tracks good kick and bass line, so it can breathe,

since i'm mostly in psychedelic trance and similar styles i wish to create clear and punchy sound,
on one forum for this kind of music , i found one article explaining this but in
VST environment with "waves" plug-ins,

since i don't have them , cause i have mostly effects for my sfp,
i'm asking here:

how can be this done in SFP project,

here is first that article for vst platform with waves plugs:

"
a way to fatten up your kick and bass combo with the Waves Plugins.
You can of course use any compressor/limiter for this but in my opinion,
there is no easier and better sounding way than with the waves plugins.

So here we go...

First, route your kick and bass to different FX channels.

On the kick FX channel, use the Waves RVox and set the threshold to something between -5 and -15.
You will notice the kick sounds "stronger" now. This isnt necessary per se,
as most kick samples are already compressed quite well, but I think its always helpful.
After that, you may need to boost the bottom of the kick a little, to give it punch.
You can do so by applying the Waves RBass now. The trick is to boost the ~80Hz area now.
Attention: as the RBass is quite heavy, you might get distortion,
so you need to make sure to lower the "intensity" from the preset 0.0 dB by a few dB.
After that, you can use an EQ to adjust the kick's character a little.

Now comes the channel you have routed the bassline to.
Most psy tracks nowadays have only one bassline providing both the sub frequencies (warmth) and the upper bass frequencies (melody).
So here is what you could do: On the bass channel,
use the Waves RVox again and adjust the threshold to a relatively high value,
this is used to make the bass really dominant in the overall mix.
Then, you can optionally use the Waves RBass again. Boost at ~40-50Hz this time, this will be the sub frequencies.
But again, go easy on the "intensity", too much bass intensity will mudden up your bassline,
so lower the preset 0.0 dB a little again.
Now is the time to do sidechaining if you need to.
This is only needed if the bass directly interferes with the kick,
but I am also trying to solve this conflict EQ/Compression-wise:
You can use an EQ on the bass now, and now you can reduce the bottom frequency you have previously boosted on the kick (here its around 80Hz),
this might be needed to give the kick space to breathe.

Now on to the last step:
Now you have to route both kickdrum and bassline channels to one single channel.
And there you apply the "Waves L2" (ultramaximizer).
This tool will maximize your kick and bass while at the same time limiting the signal to a set amount of dB
so that your kick and bass dont cause any clipping anymore.
You have to experiment a little with the values and how they work with the overall mix. In my example,
I set the "threshold" to -8.3 and the "out ceiling" to -4 ... in effect,
that means any signal louder than -8.3 dB will be maximized to -4dB,
but it largely depends on what suits the sonic nature of bassline and kick.

The settings used here are only meant as an example,
it still depends on what type of kick drum and bassline you are using. Just trust your ears

Like I said, you can also use other compressors or limiters. You have to use a high ratio to imitate the RVox."

now,

what can i use here instead of
Rvox (i think this is compressor)
Rbass (setting up freq for kick and bass - hz)
L2 (maximizer)

ofcourse working in REALTIME mode !

i have sfp dynamic effects , default with sfp software,
then psyQ, optimaster, sbc (in 4.5version)

any help would be nice !

thanks !

matej

[ This Message was edited by: fidox on 2006-09-11 01:53 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:37 am

DOUBLE UP
say you have a 'slim' bass 'guideline' for basic groove and melody
double it with Wavelength DubSub (free, should be under Devices if you don't have it yet)
use ringmod, filter and envelope.
Don't worry, it's optimized for that type of applications, so you won't need endless tweaking for a good sound.

same for the kick - you probably have KickMe (free from Adern)
to spice up the sound layer any 'attacked' waveform or sample - it's not unusual to have 3 sounds stacked for that purpose. Again (slightly) distorted or ringmodulated (adds metallic overtones) sounds apply.
You could mid/side process the higher frequencies of the FX, layer sounds with a little panorama spread.

imho that's a sonically much more interesting approch than to squeeze that single basstone to death - and saves some cash for 'wondergear' that you may invest in more DSPs (or whatever makes you more creative)

cheers, Tom

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:10 am

I use Orbitone Impressor for kick drums with slightly overdrive at input gain level to make the kick more punchy and breathing...

It works great for my needs...(electronic beats, ... )

[ This Message was edited by: hifiboom on 2006-09-11 03:16 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:56 am

yeah, I think it's mostly compression+bass enhancement combo that they're talking about. Compression you have alot to choose from, but speaking of warmth and low and "substance", Vinco would be my choice. For bass enhancement, Celmo has a subharmonics effects. Forgot the name, but it definitely works. I used to use it quite a lot.

And obviously, you need a good kick to begin with, so definitely kickme, or maybe invest some time and build your own.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:45 am

between the attacker and vinco you can make a very fat kick. sometimes a little distortion really helps make it more 3d.

one of the things i really love about the bx digital is the monomaker to make the low end mono and the bass shift to make it heavy. a proper mastering eq makes a world of difference. i'll put this effect far beyond anything that waves has produced..

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-09-11 09:45 ]