How to merge 2- 32 bit mono tracks to 1 stereo?

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:32 pm

I've been using VDAT lately but haven't figured how to do this... Which software do you use? Is it possible to do this in nuendo? If so, could you tell me how? Thanks!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:47 pm

wavelab or soundforge or sts directly if it's not too big

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:18 pm

Thanks Marcus! Wavelab won't load the 32 bit files... Dunno why... it says 32 bit isn't compatible with the compression drivers or something... I'll try STS, tho it tends to clog with long files, mine are usually 4-6 minutes. I'll try and report back.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:11 am

Wavelab, as all the Steinberg apps., don't load 32 bit fixed p., only 32 bit float.

Sound forge from v.6 up does also that format.

If you do 24 bit in VDAT you'll have no problems with Steinberg because that is a linear format they have in common (with 16 bit as well).

From Scope you can also send the VDAT 32bit files through the ASIO32flt drivers and record into any Steinberg app in 32bits float directly.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:32 am

eh, yep, i meant record back in stereo with wavelab using asio...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2006-01-24 06:33 ]</font>

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:41 am

Nuendo accepts the 32 bit files from VDAT, but I found no way to merge 2 mono tracks into a stereo one... I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done, but the manual doesn't seem to mention it. As to record back in another app from Vdat, well, I find it defeats the basic purpose of recording in 32 bit in the first place. I guess I'll record in nuendo if I want 32 bit precision then...

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:05 am

Steinberg only provides 24bit precision - 32bit float is 24 bits of precision and 8 bits of multiplier or sort of. It allows for much bigger dynamic ranges, but cannot provide 32bits precision like VDAT does. As far as I know, on my machine, just Soundforge can edit the 32bit (non-float) files...

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:34 am

Yes, SoundForge does pur 32bits, but not Wavelab. This is correct information Eliam.

Anyway, I am sure that if you do a dithering coming down from pure 32bits to 32bit float, you’ll be able to open it in Wavelab and you’ll not even notice a slight difference in sound quality. Of course… providing that you are doing it from a final mix file, or a pre-final mix file. If you were to still process these files you will definitely loose some percentage of quality particularly some headroom.

The trouble of getting yet another software for you to work with pure 32bits, is too painful, and expensive, I think this dithering solution I’m talking about is a good point, and it sounds perfect nevertheless. At the end of the day, who cares how many bits you have used? Only the sound! So, if the sound you can get dithering from pure 32bits to 32bit float, (with no farther processing) is excellent, what are you wanting for?

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:38 am

Are you saying that when I play back Vdat 32 bit files in nuendo, it won't give out all the definition contained in the files?

On another topic, is there a way to sync Vdat to a sequencer?

I really like Vdat, it seems MUCH more reliable that anything else I've tried until now. The other day I was in a recording session and my seq started making clicks in the tracks... I was in the middle of a session, no time to trouble shoot, I loaded Vdat and the tracks were perfect. Great!

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:42 am

And how would I dither to 32 bit flt? I think it might be simpler to just record in 24 bit, although I notice an improvement in depth and definition with 32 bit, especially with synth layers and soundscapes...

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:15 am

On 2006-01-24 08:38, eliam wrote:
Are you saying that when I play back Vdat 32 bit files in nuendo, it won't give out all the definition contained in the files?

This is exactly what I am saying, yes.

On 2006-01-24 08:42, eliam wrote:
And how would I dither to 32 bit flt? I think it might be simpler to just record in 24 bit, although I notice an improvement in depth and definition with 32 bit, especially with synth layers and soundscapes...

There are native apps possibilities to dither, or you can use more sophisticated methods through dedicated dithering plug-ins that outperform the way Wavelab and some others do the job, but you will need nevertheless, an application that handles pure 32bits for you to load it first, and then be able to dither to whatever bit rate this dithering app allows you to do. There will be cases you'll find that 24bits dithering is MUCH, I repeat, MUCH better than 32bit float, becuase the quality of the plugin is superior. As said before SoundForge does work with pure 32bits, so that would be a good app to dither from, using a plug-in or directly through the build-in dithering SoundForge 7 and 8 have, which, recognized worldwide, are very good quality.

Nevertheless, the Multimaximazer mastering plug-in from Waves is perhaps the most sophisticated, best sounding piece of software ever made, for mastering in general. You can dither from here too, but I don't think it does 32bit float, just 24, but it doesn't matter, as it does it perfectly well and it sounds better than 32bit float from SoundForge and Wavelab.

Waves Multimaximazer is NOT a conventional plug-in, and you will definitely mistake if you think at it as another mastering tool in the market, as there are so many out there, it is not, it’s a real ingenuous and magnificent mastering tool, with a technology well beyond it’s competitors. I would go as far as saying that Multimaximazer is the new age of mastering.

This is how it looks like:

Here it follows a detailed explanation of what it does, please, take the time to read it carefully:

"Multi-Band Auto-Summing Limiter

The key to the L3's power is its patent-pending Peak Limiting Mixer (PLMixer ) engine. The L3 differs from conventional wide band and multi-band limiters in several ways:

- Unlike wide band limiters, the L3 first uses linear phase crossover filters to divides the audio spectrum into five bands.
The PLMixer then uses psychoacoustic criteria to intelligently decide how much attenuation to apply to each band so that all available headroom is used. The result is that intermodulation is minimized and overall loudness is maximized, while brick-wall limiting is still maintained—all while retaining the simplicity of a single master threshold control.
- Unlike traditional multi-band limiters, the PLMixer doesn't require a wide band peak limiter to catch overshoots generated by individual band adjustments. Instead, the PLMixer automatically controls the gain relationship between the bands.
- The L3's Priority control allows the user to control the relative limiting of each band. This unique control lets users adjust the tonal character of the L3 over a wide range, while maintaining brick-wall limiting.
- The L3 allows a 12dB boost or cut in each band in addition to the limiting applied to each band. In effect, this feature functions exactly like a Linear Phase EQ placed before the limiting section of the L3, making the L3 an all-in-one final mastering tool.
- The L3 features a linear phase crossover which doesn't introduce phase distortion between the frequency bands.
The crossover points are selectable by the user.
- While the technology of the PLMixer allows the L3 to be extraordinarily transparent, additional controls allow it to emulate the color and character of vintage limiters. The Separation control, for example, adjusts the independence of each band; when set to 0, the bands do not react separately, and so the L3 functions—and sounds—like a wide band limiter. The Master Release alters the L3's Adaptive Release Control (ARC), offering a Warm, Scaled, Aggressive, and Manual tonal options in addition to the standard ARC setting."

"Multi-Band Auto-Summing Limiter

With the L3 Peak Limiter, Waves has once again created an entirely new category of audio processor. Like its predecessors, the acclaimed L1 and L2 limiters, the L3 is destined to become an indispensable tool for professional mixing and mastering by offering unprecedented control over multi-band peak limiting. The key to the L3's power is its patent-pending Peak Limiting Mixer (PLMixer) engine. The L3 differs from conventional wide band and multi-band limiters in several way.

Features

* Unlike wide band limiters, the L3 first uses linear phase crossover filters to divides the audio spectrum into five bands.
The PLMixer then uses psychoacoustic criteria to intelligently decide how much attenuation to apply to each band so that all available headroom is used. The result is that intermodulation is minimized and overall loudness is maximized, while brick-wall limiting is still maintained—all while retaining the simplicity of a single master threshold control.
* Unlike traditional multi-band limiters, the PLMixer doesn't require a wide band peak limiter to catch overshoots generated by individual band adjustments. Instead, the PLMixer automatically controls the gain relationship between the bands.
* The L3's Priority control allows the user to control the relative limiting of each band. This unique control lets users adjust the tonal character of the L3 over a wide range, while maintaining brick-wall limiting.
* The L3 allows a 12dB boost or cut in each band in addition to the limiting applied to each band. In effect, this feature functions exactly like a Linear Phase EQ placed before the limiting section of the L3, making the L3 an all-in-one final mastering tool.
* The L3 features a linear phase crossover which doesn't introduce phase distortion between the frequency bands.
The crossover points are selectable by the user.
* While the technology of the PLMixer allows the L3 to be extraordinarily transparent, additional controls allow it to emulate the color and character of vintage limiters. The Separation control, for example, adjusts the independence of each band; when set to 0, the bands do not react separately, and so the L3 functions—and sounds—like a wide band limiter. The Master Release alters the L3's Adaptive Release Control (ARC), offering a Warm, Scaled, Aggressive, and Manual tonal options in addition to the standard ARC setting.
* Rounging out the L3's feature set is the acclaimed Waves dithering andnoise shaping section, which delivers the highest perceived quality of soundafter quantizing.
"

Hope this gives you a go in your mastering Eliam, good luck!

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:16 am

Eliam, here you have also an interesting review about the L3:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=show&id=1192

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:34 am

Wish they would give us a stereo Vdat recorder.Would make like so much easier.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:47 am

Eliam, to slave Nuendo/SX to VDAT, slave VDAT to the VCR-128. Using ASIO2 (the only ASIO supporting that sync) you can connect the Clock output of VDAT to ASIO clock input. Now select, under Steinberg's Synchronization Setup, ASIO Positioning Protocol. I been using this successfully for some time, but the extra time to catch up after restarting the loop made me give up on it. But I figure you don't make such loop music

Hope this helps

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Thanks, Nestor! Actually, I'm not really looking for a mastering plug-in. I'm going to a pro mastering studio next thursday to have my CD mastered! woohooo!!

Thanks atOm, I'll definitely try to slave my seq to vdat, this should proove most interesting, a whole new way of working...

Thanks all for your suggestions and help!

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:14 pm

and hey, give us some small examples from your cd

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:36 pm

Thanks for your interest! You'll be able to listen to a few tunes online soon. Mostly french songs tho... but the next will be in english.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:35 pm

i have no idea what u do, but ive loved mc solar since the "rebirth of cool" series, i love Air and probarly a lot of french music that i cant think of right now, etienne de crecy has always put out quality music. ive always loved french house for instance (oooh you wouldnt even imagine the amount of champange at a Dimitri From Paris party here in Bergen a couple of years ago)

as we all know music has no borders! bring it!

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:29 pm

Hi - Music Manic
The easiiext way to get a Scope stereo recorder is to use the STS Sampler and just record, this makes a WAV file on the hard drive. There are options for mono/stereo, 16, 24 and 32 bit.

I have been playing around with this for short pieces, I am about to try recording very long sessions (ie using it to record jamming, then edit later).

The files open as normal in a sequencer, or can be played back from the STS.
VDAT takes up too much HD space as noted above, as is not really for simple stereo operation.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:14 pm

Does STS have same Vdat algorithm Geoff?
Is there any phase problems in STS?

Thanks