creamware scope pro 14 dsps

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:16 am

HELLO CREAMWARE USERS!
I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY CAN TELL ME SOME INFO ABOUT THE SCOPE HARDWARE.
WELL, I HAVE A PULSAR 2 AND A FEW WEEKS AGO I BOUGHT A SCOPE PRO.
THIS CARD HAS 14 DSPS.
I MEAN 14 DSPS ON THE BOARD.!!!!!!!!!!!
THE 15TH WHICH I SUPPOSE IS FOR SOME SPECIFIC USE, IS MISSING. SO THERE ARE 7 DSPS ON THE ONE SIDE AND 7 DSPS ON THE BACK.
AND AN EMPTY PLACE WHERE THERE SHOULD BE THE 15TH SHARK. ALSO 2 SMALLER CHIPS EMPTY PLACES AND ANOTHER 2 SMALLER CHIPS EMPTY PLACES ON THE BACK.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
SEND IT BACK? ASK FOR OTHER HARDWARE BOARD?
REALLY CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF THERE IS A REAL POWER USER HERE PLEASE ANSWER! THANKS

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-07 07:39 ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:59 am

OK WILL DO AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT HAVE YOU PLUGGED IT IN YOUR COMPUTER????????
WHAT DOES YOUR DSP METER INDICATE???????

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:02 am

kalimèra !

would you like someone with a megaphone stand 5 m in front of you and shout the text above straight in your face ?

that's how your post is perceived if all written in capital letters...

I assume you just didn't know

and I must admit the 'invitation' (with half a dozen exclamation marks) to answer almost shrieked me away.
You're welcome to ask, but commending people isn't exactly polite and could turn out pretty counterproductive...

Anyway - that card is perfectly ok, it's manufactured according to specs.
On many circuit boards you'll find empty pads - they (usually) serve different versions of a product, it's absolutely normal.

You may have overlooked that this card you have is explicetely sold as a 14 DSP card.
The 15 chip version is a different model no longer on sales.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-08-05 05:05 ]

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:01 am

It was always 14 DSPs -- the 15th was used for routing, and they may do something differently now. You have 14 DSPs available now, and that's the way it always was. Unless they're doing 13 usable DSP chips now??

Post by **garyb** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:33 pm

naw, that's right and it'll work fine.

Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:39 pm

The new Creamware Scope Pro DSP boards come only with 14 DSP's. So the card is NOT broken.

try not to use caps as you are hurting our eyes.

[ This Message was edited by: antar on 2005-08-05 13:40 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:14 pm

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:25 pm

Thank you very much for responding!
DSP meter says 15 DSPS and i count 14 one by one on the list. Is this normal? I know about the previous versions of scope pro (previous revisions i guess)that had 15 DSPS. Where there better, or there is not such issue? Creamware shows pictures of 15DSP boards although.
I work with 1Scope pro + 1pulsar2
abit ic7g
p4 3.0 prescott
2g ram
raid0 34 raptors on ichr5
xp sp1
standard pc. Couldn't make it with ACPI. It was freezing the system with midi connected on the routing window, not even on my older motherboard asus p4c800e......
Thank you very much again for your valuable knowledge.
ARCADIOS

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 11:43 ]

Post by **garyb** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:35 pm

raid is probably unnessessary.
if you experienced midi freezes, does your controller output active sensing?(use the midi monitor to see) if it does, disable active sensing or filter it....

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:42 pm

On 2005-08-05 05:02, astroman wrote:
kalimèra !

Calimari !

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:29 pm

Personally, I used to be more into Calimero

(where's the days eh)

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:49 am

Kalimera means good morning.
Kalimari.... i don't know.
Well i will check the midi controllers output. You think that if i manage to work with ACPI is it better? I know that standard pc disables prescotts hybethreading, but creamware says to install on standard pc.
And to come back, do you know if there is any performance or quality difference between Scope sp(15dsp) and Scope pro(14dsps)? If yes, i will try to find an older board i guess.
Thanks for help!
ARCADIOS

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 11:36 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:03 am

hey, standard pc is fine...less chances for trouble.

the new cards seem to work just fine.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:40 am

I see. well some of my responds cannot be seen. I guess i don't have enough time in planet z, or is there a way to see all messages i have sent and received?

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 11:43 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:00 am

I send this again. maybe i did something wrong during sending procedure.
I saw that active sensing was on. I put the midi filter and right now i have minimax connected. I am on ACPI on this controller and hd, wich i use for internet and tests. It hasn't freezed! I will wait for a while because ther was not specific time to pass before it freezed. I checked out the info in the manual about the midi filter, and i hope this is the solution. Thank you very much no matter what happens to my pc. But it seems ok!
About the quality and performance difference (if there is) between scope sp(15dsps) and scope pro(14dsps), i would appreciate some more discussion, because i am really ready to try and find an older 15dsp board if it was "better"
Thank you!
ARCADIOS

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 12:06 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:17 am

it is neglectable - the difference is (theoretically) one 15th equivalent to 7.5%, but with so many DSPs you cannot use the complete 'calculation power' anyway due to controlling overhead for the setup.

Imho you're definetely better off with the current version, which comes with full warranty and afaik also a very attractive software bundle etc.

cheers, Tom
ps: do not underestimate the risks of eBay - it has caught a lot of attraction to people with not so great intention recently

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:34 am

Due to controlling overhead for the setup?
can you please explain?
So, according to what you said, the 15th dsp uses the 7.5% of power? Am i correct? Not used for routing?
What do they do for routing on 14dsp boards?
Thank you!

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 13:30 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:22 pm

And what about 14dsp boards? What do they do for routing?

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-06 13:38 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:36 pm

maybe some explanation applies...
one chip represents 7.5% of all chips - easy

let's just simplify and assume they all do nothing but processing - so the performance difference is at best (or worst) 7.5% between 2 such boards - also easy

now the tricky part (the one that isn't self explanatory):
the loading and unloading of ANY number of DSPs is a very complex process which usually results in efficiency differences because the code segments have all different sizes.
This is a statistical matter of fact - it's unavoidable and the effect increases with the number of DSPs.

SFP achieves a much more efficient use of the DSPs than (for example) ProTools, where each process demands a complete DSP (simplyfied), so it's not uncommon that a ProTools system is maxed out, but still has 30% of it's processing resources free.

To make a long story short:
a 14 DSP board can have even more processing power than a 15 chip one, because the loading sequence had a better 'score' - by pure chance.
imho 7.5% is just too small against the high probability of not completely 'exhausted' DSPs.

the difference is just not worth bothering, even less if considering risk of damage, warranty, bundle software etc.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-08-06 15:37 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:17 am

Thank you very much astroman.
But, if we do not simplify, does this mean that the 15th dsp is not for proccessing, but for "routing"? In fact i don't know what routing is exactly. And i would like to make a few more questions here.
Is there a hidden dsp on scope pro 14dsp cards? Cause the dsp meter says 15dsps on the top. Must have to do whith routing?
ARCADIOS

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-08-07 08:20 ]