switching samples with a MIDI controller in modular sampler

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:20 pm

I've just bought myself some drumtriggers and want to build myself a modular patch which plays back a multisampled drumkit (I have BFD but 3ms latency just isn't nice enough for realtime drumming so I want to build myself a Scope mod patch to do it).

The issue is the hihat - I want to get the MIDI controller which the hihat pedal sends out (#4) to switch between a bunch of samples between open and closed (I'd like to get at least 8 positions down at maybe 4 velocity layers - I'm going to sample my own hihat) when the hihat is triggered.

For example:

hihat controller value 125-127 = fully closed sample when triggered
hihat controller value 110-124 = almost closed
hihat controller value 85-109 = slightly more open

etc...

Is this possible in modular with the sampler modules?

I have the STS samplers but I'd rather have the flexibility of a mod patch for adding velocity-controlled flexor waveshaping, enveloping etc...

Also any tips on using the sampler modules for using multisamples would be great.

I'd appreciate any help on this - I'll gladly upload the patch and samples when it's done

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:55 pm

...'3ms latency not nice enough for realtime drumming'? pfew, that's something...are you sure?

quite a project you're after Drkrzn, tho I understand you're trying to stay as close as possible to your physical input.

Sorry, I know nothing about Modular, too time consuming for me, tho it's the real work

Atom will show up for sure

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:07 pm

Yeah the thing is when you're playing drums, latencies can make a huge difference, especially when playing intricate snare rolls etc. There is a *massive* difference between 1.5ms and 3ms, which is the lowest the CW cards will go down to

Looking thru the Modular and STS manuals, I've got a feeling that it's not going to be possible without doing some MIDI processing in a native program. If I'm going to be piping MIDI in and out of Seq source/dest modules and MIDI processing programs, I think I'm going to be better off getting hold of an RME card somehow and just run BFD at 1.5ms :/

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:15 pm

Hm, I'm not that techie, but NI Batterie is easy going concerning layered sounds with different veleocities.
Dunno about the latency, but if you wanne catch the feeling of human hands, it must be doable, accepting the need of some note editing afterwards

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-07-29 19:15 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:18 pm

Yeah I already have native software (BFD) that can handle this kind of stuff (it has 5 hihat positions which isn't too bad) plus it has amazing drum sounds, but it's always going to have latency. I'm going to try and dig out an unused RME at work (mwahahah).

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:22 pm

Also by the way, the primary purpose of my home trigger system is to practise... I have more drum stuff in my studio where I can make lots of noise

When I practise with triggers I really like to get as much responsiveness as possible out of the sound source I'm playing. Because response is so important, latency bigger than 1.5ms is not an option (and neither are the drum sounds in the crappy SPD-20 I'm using as a drum brain

[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-07-29 19:23 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:43 pm

so...you aren't putting the triggers on real drums...which I first thought was your intention

(practising real drums doesn't suppose triggering

)

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-07-29 20:47 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:51 pm

Nope, I'm using a Roland SPD20 along with a couple of Roland mesh-head pads, a hihat controller pedal (a sprung expression pedal effectively) and a kick trigger (triggered with a real kick pedal

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:21 am

You have Gate switches and in Modular where you can use velocity from MVC to switch between to gate outs or some gate modules in MIII that can also be useful...

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:34 am

That sounds interesting Alfonso.. I presume that any MIDI controller can be used instead of velocity (perhaps using a Val Monitor)?

I'll check this out later today.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:03 am

Yes. The Mod2 gate switches work also with midi note values from mvc. In each of them you can define 2 zones between a min and a max value, so with a couple of them you can switch between 4 layers, if you want to switch for dynamics.

If you use notes you will be able to have a key spread multisampling. It might become a huge patch but you could also have both the splits....

I think that that module was made exactly for that purpose.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:25 am

OK, I think I'm going to attempt to build the patch tonight... thanks for the help Alfonso! The Gate Switcher looks like it could do the job (although as you say the patch will probably be huge). I have a feeling it might be best to make something like 5 or 6 positions between open and closed to keep things manageable.

Since the Sample Oscs load .p programs, I guess it might be best if I constructed my 4-layer drums and hihat positions in STS, then saved them and dragged them into the Sample Osc..

Hopefully this might be useful to other people when it's done.. I have a nice hihat (Zildjian SR10 - quite high-pitched and tight sounding) and recording facilities. I find it's extremely difficult to find a hihat that's got adequate positions between open and closed for proper expressive playing.

[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-07-30 10:26 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:18 am

On 2005-07-30 10:25, darkrezin wrote:

Since the Sample Oscs load .p programs, I guess it might be best if I constructed my 4-layer drums and hihat positions in STS, then saved them and dragged them into the Sample Osc..

Oh no! they don't unfortunately.
You need a samp.osc. for every sample.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:29 am

Damn, you're right... hrmmmm... anyone with SDK feel like making a non-lame Sample Osc?

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:54 pm

On 2005-07-30 12:29, darkrezin wrote:
Damn, you're right... hrmmmm... anyone with SDK feel like making a non-lame Sample Osc?

Beside the fact I think that current SDK users are not in the condition to make such a thing, that's not so useful...

Making a dynamic split for a sound doesn't make a huge patch.

If you want a complete Akai or STS program, remember you have audio ins in the modular.
The easiest way is to have an STS in the project, then hook one or several modulars to it, where you can do what you want, nothing less of what you can do with multisample oscillators, and in a much more comfortable and flexible way. Nothing forbids to have keyboard controlled functions in the modular while triggering an audio source out of it with the same keys (or in any other way!).

More functions, less DSP, more sounds, less space used.... And you can dedicate your modular efforts to make a killer patch good to work with any kind of audio source, not only samples...

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:11 pm

Thanks Alfonso, I'll investigate ways of doing what I need with the existing sample modules. Better manageability would be nice but I guess this is beyond the scope of Modular.