stm4896 query

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:44 pm

ok so it's an easy one probably for you gurus-

I'm not sure which category to post this in but here it is :

I'm using the stm4896

I want to send two tracks to a vinco. I've turned up the send in aux 1 on both of the tracks, and routed aux 1 into the vinco, but no level on the vinco.

admittedly I've had a long day at work and am tired, so could be missing something obvious, but it seems qutie tricky to figure out.

any help appreciated

thnks

Andrew

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:39 pm

what about the problem forum?

Anyway, the Vinco isn't really a send effect, use it as an insert, as there is no Dry/Mix balance involved usually

Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:43 pm

The way you describe it is correct
just make sure the green light is on for Aux 1 and the volume is up.

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:59 pm

Anyway, the Vinco isn't really a send effect, use it as an insert, as there is no Dry/Mix balance involved usually

Is there a wrong and right way to use fx? I don't think so! If it sounds good... Aux sends to compressors is even not that rare, though mostly you would use them as inserts, bypassing the original signal. Though it can be funny to send more than one signal thru the same compressor. That is easily with making a group channel, route the corresponding channels to this, and insert a compressor.

However, I hope this will solve your problem:

First you have to be on the chn page on STM4896, select your channel, which you allready were, and be sure to turn the knob up on AUX, and turn it on.

<img src="http://www.kraftwerket.dk/help/aux1.jpg">

Then goto the options page and press Rtn-Page. There you insert your vinco on the first AUX 1 slot, and be sure to declick external. But there is more... you have to put the return channel into the mix... by pressing the green button under the mixerfader, next to the "D"

<img src="http://www.kraftwerket.dk/help/aux2.jpg">

Now you have the original signal, combined with a compressed signal... If you only want the compressed signal from AUX 1, turn the green mix button off, the same one next to the "D", but now on the actual audio channels you want..

<img src="http://www.kraftwerket.dk/help/aux3.jpg">

Hope I was to any help

_________________
Yours truely

Noah Laux
----------
http://www.thalamusic.dk


[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2005-11-01 13:30 ]

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:16 pm

I said 'usually'

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 am

On 2005-07-05 19:16, hubird wrote:
I said 'usually'

Yeah, sorry

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:14 am

it's a nice trick to use a compressor in AUX send . it's called transparent compression .
and it's often use . the problem is the latency . easy to have a couple of sample offset between the dry channel and the AUX with the compressor . so beware of phase nightmare ....

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:27 am

exactly, so one really has to know what he's doing with 'transparent compression'.

It's not the first thing I'll advice someone who seems to have basic problems

Didn't know that term TC, thanks

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:05 am

"transparent compression" ( I've read this words somewhere in the web ) reinforce the low level but keep the whole dynamic.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:09 pm

thanks guys... will post back again with results soon, first i have to fix another issue which is bugging me.

Andrew

[ This Message was edited by: andrew on 2005-07-07 14:10 ]

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:39 am

ok i got my other issue fixed so now back to this.. thanks for your advice noah..

the images are very useful, but one thing.. when i go to the return page I'm unable to insert the vinco - it doesn't appear in the list of devices available.

Also, i've followed your instructions. should i be getting a level out of the return1 channel now? I am not, and have the the green button pressed.

With regards to 'transparent compression' - Basically what I want to do is compress 100% of two tracks together - the bass and the kick... like routing the output(not a send) of both the bass and kik to a bus in logic and having a compressor as an insert on that bus.

hehe.. I gues what i reall need to do is persist a little longer with the manual, which I am reading right now

Andrew

[ This Message was edited by: andrew on 2005-07-10 09:59 ]

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:24 pm

well I did have a read of the manual but didn't get that far. I'd been making compilation cds all day and i wanted to turn off the process side of my brain and go creative - just got into some sequencing instead

if I'm not working at my mates place tomorrow...

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:33 pm

"Transparent" compression is compression that you can't "hear". As opposed to: "coloured" compression, "extreme" compression, "pumping and breathing", etc. It has nothing to do with "parallel" compression, which is what I think you guys were referring to above.

Another thing you can do with parallel compression you can use a really dirty, raunchy compressor to add some grit to e.g. drum tracks, and then fold it back into the mix along with the original drum tracks, so that you get some dirt, but not too much.

Anyway that's beside the point. Andrew I'd recommend using a mono Vinco as insert on each of the kick and snare channels. OR route the kick and snare to a stereo drum bus, and use a stereo Vinco insert on that bus.

I don't have screenshots handy (cool shots BTW Thalamus!), but here are the steps for the 2 routes I would consider. Oh you can also use *both* approaches together:

Mono compressor on each track: in the 48/96, each track has 4 "insert" boxes near the bottom of the channel strip. They look like little grey text entry boxes. If you right click on one of them, you can choose an insert device from the list. (OR you can drag and drop from a file browser into the insert slot... either way.) You would then have to insert a separate device for each channel (kick, snare, toms, overheads, bass, ...) and set the compression levels for each channel appropriately.
Stereo drum bus compressor: First click on the "Channels" button on the left side of the 4896. It will bring up the screen that shows 8, 12, 16 or 24 channels, all side by side. There's a button over on the bottom right that says "Buses" -- click on that. You'll see a little grid. Each row is an input channel, and each column is a stereo bus. By default the channels are all routed straight to the left / right mix bus ("None"). But you can, instead, route them to Bus 1/2, Bus 3/4, Bus 5/6, or Bus 7/8. A common trick is to route all the drums to Bus 1/2; the bass to Bus 3; lead vox to Bus 4; Guitars to Bus 5 / 6; Synths to Bus 7/8 (for example).

Once you've set up your routing, choose the Bus 1 channel strip, and click "Link" to tie it together with Bus 2, as a single stereo bus. Then insert a stereo Vinco across the bus (right-click on the "insert" box and choose your insert device).

Hope that makes sense...

Have fun with it andrew! (I love Vinco on drums, BTW.

)

Johann

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:53 pm

cheers johann, will try later.

bommmmm

Andrew

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:19 am

Hi Johann - I tried your advise - almost got there.. as you said i set up my kik and bass going to the bus -

see image :

http://www.organicrecords.net/busRouting.JPG

and then linked 1 & 2.

http://www.organicrecords.net/busRouting2.JPG

2 questions at this stage. Should I be getting a level coming out of B1 & B2 now?

Also, you say to : "..Then insert a stereo Vinco across the bus (right-click on the "insert" box and choose your insert device)."

where is this insert box that I am to put the vinco in?

Thanks again

Andrew

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:46 am

turn on the green mix buttons for bus 1 and 2 to get the signal.
The insert slots are beneath the grid where you set up the channels routing to the buses. If you have linked bus 1 and 2, you have to have bus 1 selected in order to see the insert slots, in the lower right corner it says "B1" or "B2" etc, this indicates the currently selected bus. You can click the buttons next to this to step trough the buses, or click and drag up and down on the "B1" text to scroll trough. You can also click the "B1" "B2" at the bottom of the channel strip to select, just as you would with normal channels.

(btw. this is using the stm 24/48, i assume it works the same)

[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2005-07-16 05:48 ]

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:32 am

Great stuff

I've got the bus coming thru to the mix and am able to insert any scope plugin into the slot, except the vincos..?? It's strange - when I try to select a plugin in the live bar i get a subheading of 'effects' which i can open up , listing both mono and stereo vincos, and mono and stereo options which lead to submenus of modulation, dynamic, etc..

but when i select a plugin in the insert slot for the bus (or any other insert slot, ive noted) that 'effects' menu does't come up.

getting there I'm sure, thanks again king of snake

Andrew