Any advice for Creamware newbie (Cubase VST5/EnergyXT user)

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:48 am

Hello all you Creamware users out there in Planet Z land. I just recently found this site on my quest to discover as much as possible regarding Creamware and their products. My current setup:-

PC1:- Cubase VST5 as host. EnergyXT (eXT)used as VSTi within Cubase. I set eXT up with, usually, 11 stereo outs (this should make sense to eXT users - altering the .ini file etc, etc.) All my VSTis and most VST effects are then routed in this one instance of eXT which then goes into the Cubase mixer channels. I also have 2 UAD1 cards which cannot be used within eXT, so I can only insert the UAD effects into the Cubase mixer channels.

PC2:- eXT in standalone mode.

Both PCs currently have Frontier Dakota/Montana combinations in each. Both PCs are linked with each having 2 midi in/outs and 4 ADAT connections (32 audio in and out channels).

I want to put 3 Creamware Scope Pro cards (2 x Classic and 1 x Z-link) into PC1. This will give me enough connections to link both PCs plus the option of connecting with more external devices and I will have 3 midi in/outs plus 3 S/PDIF in/outs.

I think I understand the basics of how the Scope software works as regards connections, with all cards linked via S/TDM cable, one instance of the software will control all 3 cards - the software allows you to access all 3 cards audio and midi connectors as if you had one card rather than, hopefully in my case, 3 separate ones. Just hope my credit card can keep up!

Not only will having 3 cards give me ample DSP power but I will also have the options of more audio/midi in/outs plus, as Creamware uses the ASIO devices to link Cubase and the Scope cards internally, I will have more options to use the UAD and Creamware effects/instruments on more audio channels. For example, I would be less restricted on being able to send individual drum sounds from Cubase VSTis to their own individual Scope channels for processing (via the Cubase mixer's bus routing on individual channels) as I would have plenty of ASIO channels available (so long as those channels are not actually being used as actual AUDIO out channels by the Scope cards). Plus I can use the cards to process the audio coming in from PC2 (I would really be sharing the 3 cards between 2 PCs!).

I would be interested to read any advice - especially from eXT/Cubase users. Have I mised out anything important? My main concerns are how the Scope software interacts with Cubase VST5/eXT/and audio or midi from my other PC - I want maximum freedom to be able to link VST stuff running in Cubase/eXT VSTi with the Scope software - applying VST effects to instruments running on the Scope cards, Scope effects to VST instruments, VST midi effects (ERA anyone?) running on either PC1 or PC2 controlling Scope instruments.

So much to learn. So little time!

Sorry if I have not explained things too well but I am trying to keep it simple and I haven't slept for about 20 hours!

[ This Message was edited by: hesnotthemessiah on 2005-04-13 07:50 ]

[ This Message was edited by: hesnotthemessiah on 2005-04-13 07:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: hesnotthemessiah on 2005-04-13 07:55 ]

[ This Message was edited by: hesnotthemessiah on 2005-04-17 23:25 ]

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:48 am

I take it you will remove the Dakotas? If not you might have to use an ASIO driver that can handle different cards. ASIO4ALL i.e.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:05 pm

three cards should be no big deal for a good quality mobo based on nforce3 or intel chipsets. of course, you'll want to disable all onboard ports and devices you aren't using to avoid irq conflicts and you won't want any other sound cards in the scope pc, to avoid irq and asio conflicts. i use 3 cards in my main machine and have for many years with no problem. have fun!

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:05 am

Thanks for the replys peeps. Having 3 Scope cards plus 2 UAD1 cards might be pushing my system a bit too much, so I have pretty much decided that I am going to go for 2 Scope Pro Z Links now. My system is a Pentium4 2.4Ghz 1MB. I will remove the Frontier cards, which have been great, and will probably keep them for use at a later date on another PC! (I don't think I would get my money's worth for them if I tried to sell them as I don't think they are that well known - although I might swap for some Creamware stuff perhaps!). I will then have the 2 UAD cards, 2 Scope Pro Z Link Cards and one Intel Pro/1000MT Network Card (which I would have originally removed to make way for a third Scope card) in my 5 PCI slots. This should give me a good compromise between PCI pressure, DSP availability and audio in/outs. Plus 2 cards are cheaper than 3!

Thanks to Shawn at Infinite Vortex for his help aswell. I shall be using Infinite Vortex as they seem to be users of Creamware products aswell as Creamware specialists. Plus their prices seem pretty good (always important!).

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:25 pm

Thanks stardust. I can't wait to play with my new toys. Money, fame, women and a potentially fatal drug habit are now within my grasp..............

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:54 am

You should replace that 1000Mb (gigabit) Intel adaptor with a 10/100 from Intel, so that the Gigabit card doesn't cause you headaches with saturating the PCI bus.

Unless you've got the gigabit LAN card on PCI-X? I would guess not, as most PCI-X boards have limited regular PCI slots and the PCI-X slots aren't compatible with Creamware cards.

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:56 am

Hi Valis. Thanks for the info. I don't have the gigabit LAN card on PCI-X as far as I am aware. Used AIDA32 software to analyse my system and it seems that all 5 PCI slots are standard PCI slots. No mention of PCI-X (PCI-X not mentioned on the card manufacturer's website either for this motherboard). Perhaps I will give it a go with this LAN card and then, any problems, I will have to change it. Would there only be a problem if I tried to use this LAN card at the same time as the Creamware cards?

Cheers

Nev.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:56 am

as far as i know; if your motherboard has a built in LAN controller you should use this to avoid PCI traffic.

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:22 am

OK chaps. I will give it a go with the PCI LAN card and then, any problems, I will have to remove it. But couldn't there only be a problem if I tried to use this LAN card at the same time as the Creamware cards?

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:22 am

OK chaps. I will give it a go with the PCI LAN card and then, any problems, I will have to remove it. But couldn't there only be a problem if I tried to use this LAN card at the same time as the Creamware cards?

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:45 am

kinda true. you'll see problems then only if you are using lots of pci resources(especially a ton of delays and reverbs) while using the lan card or if you have an irq sharing problem because you have tons of things enabled on your computer(ports and extra unneeded devices). otherwise, it should work just fine. if you must keep the lan card, disable the built in lan port to save an irq.

better would be to use the built in lan. it runs along a different channel than the pci bus and therefore only steals bandwidth from itself. if you must use the pci card, everything should still be cool, your cwa caed will just share bandwidth with the lan card(when both are used), kinda stupid if it isn't absolutely nessessary.

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-04-19 05:49 ]

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:58 am

Hi garyb. Thanks for the reply. I am just a bit confused...if I select Network Connections and disable the LAN card, then will it not be stealing any bandwidth. I only use it when I want to transfer stuff from PC to PC, perhaps a couple of times a month, so most of the time it is disabled.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:12 am

ok fine, no big deal anyway....just, why do you need a card if the mobo has a port?

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-04-19 06:12 ]

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:53 am

Its just that the PC only has a standard 100Mbps connection on the motherboard. The PCI LAN card is a 1000Mbps connection which is useful when transfering audio files and programs across my two PCs.

Sorry garyb, not sure from your answer if you are saying that, with this 1000Mbps PCI LAN connection "Disabled" on "Network Connections", there will be any effect on the PCI bandwidth.

[ This Message was edited by: hesnotthemessiah on 2005-04-19 12:58 ]

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:46 pm

the 1000Mb/s connection is what I'm suggesting is the potential problem.

PCI32 33MHz = 133MB/s = 1064Mb/s

That means that your single ethernet card pretty much swaps the datarate of the bus. Also I've found that most gigabit ethernet drivers, while not as extreme as Nvidia and Ati, tend to set their latency pretty high to maximize performance. I just have concerns that 2 Scope pro cards and 2 UAD cards aren't going to sit well next to that gigabit card. For what its worth i often move audio and video files around my network and the biggest bottleneck for 100Mbit LAN isn't the cards, its the cheaper cable modem/router and even normal inexpensive 'switches' that are targeted towards the consumer market. Typical throughput in 'real world' terms is often 1/3 to 1/4 of the actual rated speed.