ASB - just another retro-move from CWA!?

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:41 am

While I do understand this move from CWA, because of the hopefully easy money made from these new ASB-synths, I can’t help but feeling a bit disappointed, since this product doesn’t target the group of musicians that I myself feel to be a part of – the computer-musician.

I wonder why it always seems that CWA’s main marketing strategy is to convince ”old-school”-musicians of their products excellence. It’s like they are thinking, we have to design this so that people used to outboard-gear want get scared away. Look at the design of the STS-samplers how they emulate Akai-samplers, look at the choice of instrument-emultions, the studio-analogy with the routing-window and now these ASB-babies.

I’m not saying that this is a bad idea all the way through. Why rethink a design that has proven to work?- And then I can’t help but thinking, why not!? Maybe it can be made even better and easier to use combined with the computer/mouse/screen-interface. I mean most of us would agree that a sampler-interface that took a better use of the “ease of use”-capabilities of a computer, would have been a nice. Some of us would have loved to see/hear synth-design that wasn’t old-school from the beginning.

I’m really hoping that CW will soon start to combine the old-school-lessons that they have so clearly learned, with the possibilities which the computer-platform offers and bring us computer-musicians something which isn’t just a remake or emulation of something already out there.

I’m not trying to through dirt at CWA’s efforts here, since there clearly are an interest for this kind of product. I’m simply hoping that my views on the matter will inspire the creative minds at CWA, so that they will bring us products that are targeted at the growing numbers of computer-musicians out here. So what do you say Frank, are you up for it?….

Best regards
Thomas

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:22 am

the studio-analogy with the routing-window

...er, that's SCOPE's strongest point innit?

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:26 am

I've never said it was a bad idea - I was simply trying to make my thesis clear about how CWA thinks when they develop "new" stuff.

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:29 am

I don't see your point as minimax and profit 5 , odissey , b300 etc .. are already availlable on sfp ?? (ie for computer based musician ) . maybe you just need a midi device like a drehbank . asb are much more sexy though .
the good thing is that CW start to move to an other DSP and maybe a pci express card ; that's the sixth sens of spiderman ..

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:34 am

I don't think you get my point - my point is that it looks like CWA's main target group are old-school musicians, who wouldn't feel tempted to try out CWA, if it wasn't because they already knew the interface and sound.
What I would like was to have CWA look at what kind of interface and sound-creating/manipulating tools the computerbased musician would find interesting and not what the old generation of musicians would feel comfortable with.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:45 am

Nice to know i'm officially an old generation musician

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:45 am

ok ! I get it !
it's clear now .

their plug ins looks so sexy like this but maybe not so handy .
asb is clearly for oldschool electronic musician . and it looks like a real instrument . I already like them a lot far more than the noah .

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:46 am

Wow man, this is a truly intelligent point… very clearly exposed and it makes complete sense. I really would like for Creamware Audio to read it.

This is true, they could come up with wild new ideas for the electronic and revolutionary new world that is beginning with synthesis and all this.

Nevertheless, I have heard many, many emulations and virtual synthesizers through the last 5 years, a lot of the same, a lot of middle-of-the-road stuff that you get tired of, but Creamware synths are top of the best in the market. It is just to give them a BIG award for it!!!

But I understand and agree completely to your idea.

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:55 am

I think you don't have to use avant-garde tools to be avant garde or what .
i'm agree that some design need to be rethink to be used with a mouse etc .. but maybe it's the mouse that need to be re-design ?
but yes the future is on the human/machine interface

[ This Message was edited by: spiderman on 2005-04-07 11:57 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:21 am

To make it more clear Spider, let think about Reaktor 4 and Minimax. They are completely different I know. I still preffer the sound o the Minimax, but Reaktor 4 can do inimaginable things that are a world of explaration.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:21 am

And remember you are talking with a big Creamware fun, i.e, me...

Post by **garyb** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:30 am

i really doubt that there is anything that reactor can do that scope can't do with a little if the tools are properly used, especially with modular. what scope needs is an update to keep it compatible with the upcoming hardware and maybe(as Frank said, these units used new chips!) a powerboost. things like osx and mackie control would be way better for the platform than trippy synths especially when there are already so many tools available(yes, i'll buy more devices, developers!).

every company in this screwy world system needs to have a new toy to sell or people stop giving them money and ignore them. i hope that these things sell.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:51 pm

I can see your point about the UI approach, but quite honestly, what alternative is there? All software synths/samplers/FX almost without exception use the knobs/sliders approach - something which is conveniently very easy to integrate with the MIDI data paradigm.

Re-working UI philosophy is not an easy thing, and requires a lot of R+D costs.. I hardly think CW is in the right shape to do this. Also, don't forget the fact that even if something is designed better or has a revolutionary interface, doesn't mean that many musicians will take to it easily (the Scope environment is perfect proof of this).

Also, regarding the 'old-skool musician' thing - I think it's a very valid target area, as these people generally have money because they know what they're doing and why they're doing it. Appealing to kids who only have experience with software won't necessarily translate to sales, as they are very likely to use cracks and not really care too much about sound quality. Cases in point: Ableton Live, Reaktor, Fruity - all very cool, novel tools, but sadly lacking in sound quality.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:53 pm

Also I'd like to make one very important point (in my opinion). There is no such thing as computer music/electronic music/acoustic music. It's all MUSIC, and you can squeeze it out of anything if you have the skills and the soul.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:49 pm

On 2005-04-07 12:30, garyb wrote:
i really doubt that there is anything that reactor can do that scope can't do with a little if the tools are properly used, especially with modular. what scope needs is an update to keep it compatible with the upcoming hardware and maybe(as Frank said, these units used new chips!) a powerboost. things like osx and mackie control would be way better for the platform than trippy synths especially when there are already so many tools available(yes, i'll buy more devices, developers!).

every company in this screwy world system needs to have a new toy to sell or people stop giving them money and ignore them. i hope that these things sell.

Of course you can do any kind of sound you want with our Modulars Garyb. What I am saying is that Reaktor is revolutionary in its way of working and you can perhaps achieve some experimental sounds faster, while having fun. Something like this would be cool in the SFP arena too, perhaps a matter of interfaces, I’m not sure.

A secondary point is that Modular II and III demand lots of horsepower from your board, which is soon drained off, using just one of them. I can’t do much with Modular in my machine as I have 4 DSP. I know this is my problem, but this is it.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:42 pm

innovation isn't rewarded by the customer - that simple...
old style boxes, be it Korg Electribes, the Evolver, the Virus and of course all 'real' retro gear from the Mini to the TR808 sell in quantities.

We have the PythonPro - noone wants it
Hartmann obviously is in financial trouble or how would one explain the Neuron VSTI release ?
Even more as it was quickly followed by the sample processing software which was originally intended as an exclusive option for hardware buyers.
Now that they aren't blinded by the gorgeous design of the Neuron, people even dare to diss it's sound quality - instead of making use of what's available...

Except Minimax and SixString I have probably every plugin for SFP, and love them all.

But honestly, they are collectors items - for 'music' I only need 10% of what I have available - it's a total luxury of course to be able to switch to arbitrary sounds just when the idea enters the mind.
But for creativity's sake it's already 400% too much. Instead of saving presets I just change the synth and move a few dials...

so what is CWA about to sell to me ?
one of those boxes might apply indeed

CWA cannot generate enough cash flow (or attract new customers) with their traditional products, that's a matter of fact.
These boxes are useful and fill the business gap, be it old fashioned or not

cheers, Tom

CroNiX · Post by **CroNiX** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:40 pm

I believe that this move is a very good one for all of us (hardware vs. computer) because it will put a hardware synth in front of "traditional" artists with the creamware name on it which might inspire some of them to turn to the computer platform.

Post by **hubird** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:40 pm

it could be we'll see soon some Minimaxes and Pro-'s plugs in the Scope Purchasing forum... from me as well

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-04-07 21:41 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:58 am

On 2005-04-07 12:30, garyb wrote:
... what scope needs is an update to keep it compatible with the upcoming hardware and maybe(as Frank said, these units used new chips!) a powerboost. things like osx and mackie control would be way better for the platform than trippy synths especially when there are already so many tools available(yes, i'll buy more devices, developers!).
t these things sell.

Well said... This is what i noticed first also. The goal of this new series of hardware devices as i see it, is exactly that : warming up for new pulsar hardware with 10 times the power. And yes, mackie control would be absolutely fabulous.

And i'm still convinced that firewire is the way to go. Anyway, like i allready said before, i'll never ever buy anything in a PCI card format anymore, nor PCI-e or PCI-x for sure. Too much tied with inner working of a PC (or mac). And forget about the standard argument that a reverb on a firewire would use too much bandwidth, think 'onboard ram'.

BTW, on the french forum 'fr.audiofanzine.com' they seem to really like the ASB concept. I think cw has maybe this times hit the spot right on with their little sexy boxes

I really hope they do it soon (fw-pulsar 10 times more powerfull), it's about times i'd say

My .02€

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2005-04-08 01:59 ]

doodyrh · Post by **doodyrh** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:11 am

"analog stereo input and output"

No digital audio