My swan song Goodbye CW

kindread · Post by **kindread** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:37 pm

I'm one of those dudes that people like creamware should be glad that there are in the world. I am a loyle customer. I stick to familiar brands and trust the producers and suppliers that i buy from. I brought a pulsar1 some years ago now, and from the begining was totally wowed by what I would still consider an all time buy.

I am a mac user and from early on found that mac and pulsar were not the best of friends. Many a niggle here and there and the odd delayed release of drivers and things.
I believed in the product and thought that these issues would resolve themselves. and to a sufferable point the did. The coming of os9 made my pulsar productivity increase, and I was a happy quietly grumbling customer.

Apple moved on and so did their opperating system. I delayed for over two years upgrading as I was happy to boot in os 9 and allow osx to develop with the promise anticipated pulsar upgrade to the new mac os.

Creamware trumpeted ambiguious release dates. Year after year passing with no show on a bete let alone a release. Year after year kept waiting for a creamware update. Year after yaer I was disapointed.

I think I have waited three years, after haveing the pulsar for seven years. I wanted to buy a pulsar 2 and really invest in the great product that I today still believe in.

I can no longer use os9 as a serious option for my work so I have been using osx for the past two years. I brought a new mac and use the pulsar in my old g4 as an instrament which is great but not what i brought the thing for. It was meant for much more than a glorified tone generator.

I reasently shelled out hard cash for a yamaha o1x which i love and it is now the heart of my setup.
This was the position that the pulsar had in my setup and if there had been osx drivers I would have definatly brought a new pulsars. But alas CW will get no more money from me, and further more I dont care a thing about them anymore.

I think it is a shame but I am not a fool, and I feel like my loyality in this company has totally been abused. I know the sad tails and the hard luck stories. I suported this company through all of theese things, but I feel my faith is now no more than a belief in fools gold.

Sorry for them, I can not wish them bad, but I have sung my swan song and am jumping off the train there is no gravey here. My pulsar is just another toy in the corner now I am sad But I have to move on and my constent checking of Planet z or Cw for news has become a big bore in life. There is no sparkle here for me. I place CW and their products frimly in a long past. Along with betamax and the stylaphone.

So long Planetz, So long Creamware. I would not even try to sell my pulsar it is useless and defunct, a dinasour.
I feel like the dohdoh waiting for another dohdoh. No more! I release myself from the spell that makes me foget that I have been investing to much faith in a thing that dosent do what I want it to do. I paid for the lst square WHEELD bus before they released to new round wheeled verson the same week.........

CW had a great idea and a fantastic oppertunity to really help people realise their dreams. They did that, but at the same time they stabed a whole lot of poeple who paid hard cash to be treated with some respect.

Mac users cannot feel like CW respect them. This was the case from the begining. Unfortunate for Mac users. Sad for a company that needs all the friens it can get. I am a friend of CW but I was a friend that would have paid cash to show how nice a friend I was. Past tense final word.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:48 pm

hi kindread,

whatever your conclusions about CWA may be - ok, but in the Apple context you're as wrong as can be.
It happened this afternoon that we discussed our gear and investment plans - and we agreed on one simple fact:
we're happy customers and Apple cannot afford us
Our workload is done on G4 Cubes from 2000 - that's at least 4 years - and since jobs are unlikely to change in that departement the Cubes will do it for at least 2-3 further years.
One machine in 7 years - do you really believe that's todays business model ?
Do you think Steven Jobs is THAT stupid ?

Think twice: if OSX is so much better, why do they (have to) prohibit an OS9 boot ?
Noone will boot into that old sh*t, everybody moves on, of course, is happy to finally leave that toy stuff behind ...

The original poster from the Mac introduction 1984 still hanging on my wall - I kind of like the company and I even fought for them - doing business with them for almost 20 years.
But that doesn't make me blind to the facts.

No need to change your mind - YOU decide what applies as your gear and what doesn't.
But please be honest in your judgement.

CWA doesn't have the 'Apple attitude', they tried their best and were almost bound to (economically) fail - but you do applaud a company that deliberately ignores your needs as a customer, blinding with an incredibly effective marketing.
It HAS to be this way, today - but it also HAS to be adressed as what it is.

cheers and best wishes for future music, on whatever gear you like, Tom

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:39 pm

See ya =P

Post by **hubird** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:39 am

@ Kindread
you're timing is wrong...half a year ago I could've agreed with you, but not now.
it's clear (reading between the lines) that something is gonne happen according OSX in the near future.
So your technological needs are urgent or you're too impatient...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:00 am

See ya.

Mr A
(More concerned about my sound than my OS - OS9.2 was always the best anyway - well done Apple

)

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-02-16 04:02 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:11 am

Jeee! And I invested in a third card!

Good bye, kindread

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:38 am

I could provide a nice retirement home for your card if you like...

Best of luck, I hope you find the right set-up that works for you.

Royston

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:58 pm

New audiocard with multiple outs and an ADAT port or two for the new G5....move the Creamware cards into an older G4 (or GASP a PC!) and route audio and midi between the two to have the best of both worlds....

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:47 pm

kindread,
how about the reactions?old girl friend is always the best.
cheers

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:31 pm

Kindread has exactly done what Valis suggested with his notebook and a Pulsar in a G4 - see his earlier posts

Imho that's a very good setup, but if he demands more, ok, it's up to him...
I just can't stand that unreflected Apple applause - it is like it is (for an economic reason), but it's hardly 'progress' in the sense of customer benefit.
Apple is the last company to give him what he expects from CWA

sorry for self-repeating, Tom

Post by **garyb** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:52 pm

Apple is the last company to give him what he expects from CWA

***STANDING OVATION***

apple makes a fine product, but their attempts to force users to buy new products(however good quality) out of loyalty simply because the company needs money puts them(apple) in the same catagory as anyone else and as open to criticism. it was not nessessary for them to close off the platform physically in the way that they did. it was a form of corporate bullying meant to force all smaller manufacturers of esoteric gear out of the way of an all apple experience(final cut, logic pro etc.). it is a form of hypnotism based on snobbery(can't use a backwards compatable slot or even keep an old slot or two because it's too universal and inclusive) so one would never just use adat and a nearly free(gasp) pc to connect cards that cost AS MUCH as a computer to a new machine, because i must have the latest and shiniest. function is not even the question...and no, cwa can't be faulted on function. they are miraculous in function and work better than could be expected.

no, i won't bash the maker of the machine that does what any other computer will do for making me his slave to his products(hmmm, do i smell m$ behavior here? whay is bill gates hanging around apple all the time, anyway?). no, i won't blame him for obsoleting an entire product line brutally and before the usefulness had been used up so that he could make me buy new things. no, i won't have him held accountable for making his products meet MY needs(if you think that there'd still be no osX support if the g5 compatability issues hadn't existed, then you are sadly mistaken).

kindread, it's always all or nothing with CONSUMERS these days. the funny thing is, most buyers don't know the difference between reality and hype. apple and m$ are really not even different companies. they are parts of a system, globally, and having many of the same and one major shareholder in common. for my part, i prefer to keep them as manufacturers of tools. i use those tools for my purposes, not the other way around. if you like something better, go use it. don't be angry though. you have not been robbed. even as an effects rack or a synth rack, your card is worthy and valuable. you know this or you wouldn't have "waited" three years. undoubtedly, there WILL be osX support or it won't matter anymore, but none of that is keeping you from buying a new computer or enjoying the new computer. your lack of "scope" in thought is unfortunate, but in my mind, your loss.

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-02-18 17:47 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:34 pm

I don't know much about company marketing stuff, but was there any technological or global market bound reason to put slots with different voltage in the mac?
Hasn't heat caused by the faster processors to do with it?

All my professional friends really are very happy with OSX, and not for the visual effects (which I don't like so much BTW).
Personnally I would be glad to be freed from the classic ASIO/OMS technic, as it is not safe enough.

Also, it took years before OSX got the only alternative, and OS9 was working for quite some time in newer macs.
And VST's still can be used in OSX, if I'm right.
Software develloppers had years to change to OSX, after Quark Express all except CWA are ready for it.

We were looking for a real DAW system for long time, shouldn't we be glad that Apple created that system?

Open for every argument

(Kindread seems to have left the building, so I don't really feel hijacking the thread here

).

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-02-18 19:38 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:13 pm

hubird wrote:

was there any technological or global market bound reason to put slots with different voltage in the mac?
Hasn't heat caused by the faster processors to do with it?

Well seeing as PCI can run at 3.3V as well as 5V , then there's no reason they had to go to PCI-X totally. Why couldn't Apple have had say two PCI and three PCI-X slots? The new P5 motherboard has two PCI and three PCI-Express i believe, allowing users to use their 'old' cards. No technical reason, it's all marketing i'm afraid.

Also, it wasn't until the Jaguar(?) revision of OSX that it even became useable for audio - that would have been a year wasted at least if we'd all jumped straight to it.

Oh, and VSTis have had to be coded twice now because Jaguar VSTi don't work in Panther and vice-versa (not to mention the PITA that is AU - i know one major VSTi developer who hates AU). So all round, well done Apple [insert sarcasm emoticon].

Mr A

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-02-18 21:23 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:43 am

except for the above mentioned points i have nothing against apple or the g5. i know it's a good machine. i just wanted to point out that astroman was correct in what he said. apple kinda pulled a dirty trick on a very loyal user base.

Post by **hubird** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:41 am

@ Garyb
no problem Gary, I was just curious for the right argumentations

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:48 pm

I think it's not mareting about putting only PCI-X slots in the new machines. I think it's just only an idea from Big Steve like 'I want my new machines totally different from the mass products'. I work in the commercial/advertising business and, oh, how often it is that a 30s spot is done one way because a president of a corporation wanted it and all was counter to research and healty rationality

_________________

Sir samplaire scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2005-02-19 18:49 ]

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:43 am

When Apple came out it had 50% of the small World Wide PC market, now it has 2%.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:43 am

and who (or how many) do you think had a 'small PC' around 1980 ?

90 percent of todays market simply didn't exist back then...

but this not the point here - Apple's customer base has been the most loyal one you can imagine.
And this customer base gave (and most of it still give) a sh*t on OSX - Apple's 90% share in publishing would immediately switch to it if, yes IF there WAS an application under the unix-hood that made their business more simple, effective and reliable.
Exactly those were the arguments that originally sold them to Apple.

And because the killer-app doesn't exist Apple simply forces to use certain versions of their OS.

Imagine you buy an Intel mobo, but it will only boot with XP, service pack I-dunno-what... even though Linux would run, Win2K or Win98 etc - you know it because you've installed (or used) one of the other OSes on the same hardware.
What do think would happen if Intel came out with such a joke ?

They tell you OS-9 is outdated - that's not exactly correct - it WAS outdated...
If Apple had invested the same resources they've put into OSX into improving OS-9, we'd have an almost perfect (workstation) OS - and could use our G4s and what came after ad infinitum...

cheers, Tom

ps: to not loose focus on the original topic, which contained some complaints about CWA's customer 'unfriendly' behaviour, how does Apple's 'politic' look under this point of view ?

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-02-20 07:50 ]