How far will you go to keep scope alive?

Post by **irrelevance** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:33 am

Let me start by saying I'm a scope newb (if you haven't already guessed).My creamware card setup is less than a few months old but and the possibilities seem VAST (almost like VALIS in fact

)
The whole buzz at the moment regarding pci buss bandwidth increase and the pci equipment now becoming obsolete has got me thinking that I should already start planning a replacement/clone computer setup as a backup to the one thats running now. Current electronic parts can and do last 20+ years (devices such as electrolytic capacitors usually being the first to go but can last if operating within specified conditions). So a backup system to house my cards seems like a good way of ensuring the longevity of my SFP use...
Of coarse there's no way I can say theat the cards themselves would last long enough to be "transplanted" into the knew system if needed....could I afford backup cards!

In my case these actions could be said to be traits of dependance,hording/collecting and emotional attatchment/familiarity etc.
So, how far have you gone/would you go?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:14 am

It's a good idea

I remember Astro saying he had collected parts to make scope last longer...

Perhaps I will look around soon for another pIII 800 cusl-2 machine, for peace of mind.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:34 am

On 2005-02-09 06:33, irrelevance wrote:
...Current electronic parts can and do last 20+ years (devices such as electrolytic capacitors usually being the first to go but can last if operating within specified conditions). ...

while you're right about the fact, it doesn't save you from manufacturers actually planning 'leakages' in otherwise (too) solid layouts at the design stage already...

No kidding, I know it from a reliable source. Fortunately this 'only' applies to mass consumer equipment like TV etc.

There's only one true vulnerable part on a Scope card, the eeprom memory containing the serial stuff - in the context that it's not easily replaceable as a TOSLink connector or an opamp.
A very small part of the boards (I guess 1 out of 1-5k) may suffer from sudden amnesia, erasing all your registrations - but at least those boards still seem to be usable as DSP extenders.

Well, since mobos and the like have dropped in price to ridiculuous levels, I'm buying ALL the company stuff at least in pairs

This is just a matter of convenience to have everything in place and ready to go. Since a Scope board reliably runs in almost everything there will be no shortage of supplies I guess.
For synths it's totally pointless, just the pCI intense FXs need a little attention (anything from Intel BX, 815, 865 etc - on the Mac side from Sawtooth upward)

I'd really appreciate CWA getting their stuff together and going - there's still alot to exploit.
But even in the worst case I'd have toys lasting for decades from what's installed on my system.

In fact the only problem I have with SFP is that I have too much.
Sometimes it feels so depressing not to be able to decide between this or that synth or what FX(-chain) to prefer.
I have Solaris, Python, Flexor, Profit, Vectron, the Wavelength bundle and a few more...

cheers, Tom

Post by **hubird** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:59 am

...got me thinking that I should already start planning a replacement/clone computer setup as a backup to the one thats running now.

I would call this absolutely nonsense, not alone from technological/timeline viewpoint, but also from personnal viewpoint (afraid for using your stuff).

Why don't you start a new song?
You won't believe how much fun you can have with that!

Post by **irrelevance** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:55 am

while you're right about the fact, it doesn't save you from manufacturers actually planning 'leakages' in otherwise (too) solid layouts at the design stage already...
No kidding, I know it from a reliable source. Fortunately this 'only' applies to mass consumer equipment like TV etc.

you're right there. Built in obselescence is no conspiracy!

would call this absolutely nonsense, not alone from technological/timeline viewpoint, but also from personnal viewpoint (afraid for using your stuff).

Why don't you start a new song?
You won't believe how much fun you can have with that!

Well hubird I think you're right when thinking in terms of musical downtime (I wasn't suggesting that I thought using the system was wrong) but yes the point I was trying to make was that the practical/logical side of me sees these eventualities and trys to come up with solutions to the problems. I really wanted to see how far other people would go, spending time/money maintaining a system that worked for them.

Post by **hubird** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:55 am

I see

Well, I want to spend as little time as possible to maintaining my system.
I have to say, a mac isn't a bad choise then

Another thing is that I learnt that it's pretty useless to hide for technological changes/aging.

The reasons are numorous, and amongst them are real life facts, like:

getting a child (or two) making you too tired for making music

earn lot of mony what will make you laughing about your previous future worries

your new neighbours who don't like noise

your new partner hating modern music,

but also technological devellopments that outrule all other devellopments that you tried to capture (wanne buy my €5000,- Kurzweil K2500 sampler?).

I just thought, what now, if you love your card that much (I do too

), you better start using it as much as possible before it or you starts failing

no offend, cheers

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:08 am

I think the best way to keep Scope running is to invest in an AMD Athlon64/Opteron computer (unmatched CPU performance and PCI bandwidth). If you use a Mac, maybe a Magma chassis would be good (of course, not much good until there are OSX drivers/Scope environment).

[spam]
Funnily enough, I have a Magma chassis for sale:

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... &forum=8&2
[/spam]

Post by **irrelevance** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:11 am

I see
Well, I want to spend as little time as possible to maintaining my system.
I have to say, a mac isn't a bad choise then

Another thing is that I learnt that it's pretty useless to hide for technological changes/aging.

The reasons are numorous, and amongst them are real life facts, like:

getting a child (or two) making you too tired for making music [/qoute]
CHECK
Few weeks away to little one

earn lot of mony what will make you laughing about your previous future worries
UNCHECK
your new neighbours who don't like noise
CHECK

your new partner hating modern music,
CHECK CHECK CHECK CHECK!! Slowly bringing her around
but also technological devellopments that outrule all other devellopments that you tried to capture (wanne buy my €5000,- Kurzweil K2500 sampler?).
UNCHECK UNCHECK UNCHECK!! (no offense hardware not much use to me )
I just thought, what now, if you love your card that much (I do too ), you better start using it as much as possible before it or you starts failing
no offend, cheers

CHECK! You're right! Life is short...Technology is shorter

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: irrelevance on 2005-02-09 11:13 ]</font>

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 pm

If Analog Devices delivers the goods not too late regarding planned release dates ... 2006 should be awesome ... for a long time.
I'am confident about the long term survival kit tech specs and *more* worried about CWA marketing.
I've bought happily a lot of devices and I'am so addicted I want to run more voices and more 96 Khz everywhere that I'll buy some old DSP in 2005, still a awesome bargain and next year, CWA or I could be dead so I prefer not to waste time !

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:56 pm

Who or what is 'Analog Devices'?

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:01 pm

http://www.analog.com/ , the maker of the Shark chips and software CW uses.

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:02 pm

Ahhh, thank you.

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:31 pm

Seeing how it's still possible these days to buy/obtain/find 386 and 486 class hardware for ultra-cheap/free (you might even get money in return for picking up the hardware =P), I don't think it's going to be a big problem to get a board with PCI slots in 10-20 years, especially since computer hardware production has significantly ramped up since the 386/486 era.

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:27 pm

I've got an attic with parts going back to Token Ring (and an old Compaq 8086 Luggable in the corner). I could easily have 4-6 more systems running in here and I'm sure in several years I'll have enough of what we currently consider 'modern' computer parts lying about to maintain my SFP box for years. And saying Macs don't need so many upgrades doesn't count as I've got some nuBus stuff lying about too!

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:59 pm

My thoughts exactly,

When the goin gets rough, ill just buy a PCI/PCIe Magma chassis for my PCI cards like UAD/TC/Scope run them through the magma which will end in a PCIe breakout.

Hopefully that should do it, I mean after all, the entire DSP industry is based on PCI as far as I know, so that means for the future you can expect a solution available such as the Magma.

I mean what are all these people with HDSPs, Lynx,CW,Echo etc going to do when PCI is dead?

Big bon fire maybe

Cheers!

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:08 am

Yep. There are also alot of PCI-based systems used in commercial/industrial settings that aren't going to go away just because the hardware vendors start pushing new standards, given how much were invested in them in the first place.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:20 pm

that's the funny thing about computers. people throw them away when they still work as well as ever.....often for no real improvement in performance!

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:31 pm

Hear, here~!

mr swim · Post by **mr swim** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:43 pm

On 2005-02-09 07:14, wayne wrote:
It's a good idea

I remember Astro saying he had collected parts to make scope last longer...

Perhaps I will look around soon for another pIII 800 cusl-2 machine, for peace of mind.

I have a pIII 733 cusl-2 that i'm looking to sell ...

just a shame about the postage I guess !

W