Pro Reverb - in Hardware??? ref. Timeworks A-100

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:59 am

Hi all
I bought the Timeworks A-100 and I-100, which sound fantastic, but I get PCI Overload messages after a random time from zero to 5 minutes, which involves a restart, very boring, in fact unusable, and I don't want to change my VIA (yes I know) motherboard (ASRock) as everything else works fine. 24 dsps, 3 GHz Intel, and a gig of RAM, too!
So can anyone recommend a hardware reverb / effect (since I like the I-100 for weird fx) that is not stupidly expensive? This I can easily loop into the PC system. I see Behringer have a cheap Pro reverb (so they say) out with 2 stereo channels.

Any tips welcome, thanks.

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2005-01-25 11:59 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:24 pm

Try AnwidaSoft's DX 'verb. There's a very usable demo version which will enable you to a) find out if the PCI bus still overloads and b) evaluate the quality of the 'verb.

Royston

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:24 pm

You'll be better off with Masterverb if you consider Behringer to be an option.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:24 pm

So about this VIA thing...

Oh, OK then, nice to see another Sarf Landoner round these parts BTW. i haven't heard the Behringer, but i probably don't need to. With reverb you mostly get what you pay for i'm afraid - cheap means shit in hardware.

You would be better off getting an older unit from some decent manufacturer on eBay or something. Although the Roland's, Yamaha's etc. aren't as good as a Lexicon they will at least be decently built and have half-decent sounds.

Maybe i'm wrong about the Behringer, but i would rather spend a bit more on a second-hand (or pre-owned in the new parlance!) unit. i can't name specific models as i use MasterVerb Pro and will be getting P-100 soon, but i would try one of the lower end Lexicons, or TC ones.

Mr A

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:25 pm

You could also see if this tool is of any help on your VIA-chipset:

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=13&0

I suggest you read the info carefully.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:25 pm

You'll spend much less with a new mobo.

a hardware in the rank of these verbs is $$$$$

sorry, but I have no other help.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:29 pm

And check out PCI Dawg too:

http://www.mark-knutson.com/t3/index.html

IMHO the only way you're going to get a P-100/A-100/I-100 quality of FX is if you buy a real Lexicon or TC (not the budget ones!!) or an Eventide or Kurzweil KSP-8.

You might get some reasonable FX from a TC Powercore or UAD1 but IMHO the verbs in those are overrated and based on very old technology.

You really should look into getting a better motherboard (even if you dedicate a separate PC to one of your Creamware cards to run the Timeworks verbs, you'll be way better off than buying budget hardware).

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:48 pm

Thanks all - is that a record for speed of responses?
I have thought of putting my Luna card in a different PC and running the A-100 on it. 3 dsps?
I have had a few cheap Lexicon etc reverbs, don't rate them that much. The Behringer I have not heard yet, their equipment usually sounds horrible, but their new verb got a good Sound on Sound review. A rack is easier to deal with with than another PC, or the Win XP hassle of a new motherboard (since it is only the A-100, not all my other CW stuff eg Masterveb, Solaris, Minimax, lots of Vincos etc etc., all loaded up to 24 dsp, not a problem!)

I will check out your various recommendations, thanks again,
Geoff in SW London !! It's freezin'

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:06 pm

Geoff in SW London !! It's freezin'

Yeah, just been down the Peckham Pulse and it's bloody chilly.

i think you caught everyone online at the same time, possibly a planet z record

Mr A

PS. Do you have MasterVerb Pro? Perhaps you don't like it - i find it OK for most stuff (why not get it half price in the CWA shop?).

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:19 pm

No I don't have Masterverb Pro, but the normal Masterverbis OK, I like the Timeworks one for the difference in sound from the Masterverb, it is very creamy and the effects possible on the Inverse (I-100) are great.
I don't think there is a demo to play around with of Masterverb Pro.

Is it hailing now? Cor blimey!!

thermos · Post by **thermos** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:49 pm

tc electronics m300. cheap and good.

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:43 pm

Well I spent the evening trying to fix the problem when using Timeworks A-100, with endless reboots etc, it causes Live 4 to crash, and fail to find Asio Scope, etc, spent ages using the PCI monitor programs mentioned above, none of which made any difference (changing my Radeon7000 dual head video card latency from 255 to 096, also ULLI reduction / increase - I have tried everything,a s well as all the usual ones). However if I remove the A-100, everything works fine, whatever I do, including Saves while running, loading too big things into Scope then rapidly removing other items (from Scope) etc, general on the fly working, with Scope 4, Live 4, and Wavelab 4 all open, and switching between, the lot, not a trace of a problem. So it must be that reverb!!!
Thanks for all the tips on hardware, the Lexicon MPX500 looks pretty good as it does effects as well, or the Yamaha Rev500. Both of these are cheap these days. The TC one is more for general use or guitarists? There is a lot of cheap hardware around, everyone is going software...
So tonight: 2 hours hacking a PC; 1 hour doing a song... at least I have an identifiable (and avoidable) cause of the problem.

One more thing: when it does a PCI Overload, after the 'reset', no audio comes out, but when playing the meters bounce up and down as normal, and this signal (data) is recordable (into Wavelab) and plays back fine, when Scope is restarted. Does anyone now why this happens? What happens at the audio conversion/ output stage?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:25 pm

On 2005-01-25 18:43, geoffd99 wrote:
...
So tonight: 2 hours hacking a PC; 1 hour doing a song... at least I have an identifiable (and avoidable) cause of the problem.
...

in fact, called VIA chipset...
you know it - and you refuse to accept it, for an obscure assumption that 'everything else works' - and will break if you change the mobo.
Even someone like me with absolutely no passion for Wintel constructions (and only willing to learn an unavoidable minimum) can setup that crap in half an hour, reproducable.

It IS trouble if one (that's me) wants to keep older hard- and software. For known reasons BOTH Apple and M$soft make this as difficult as possible.
But it doesn't apply to more or less current setups.

I don't have the slightest reason (or intention) to talk you into something - it's your time and your cash, but there's no reason for conspiration theories about system failures when the culprit is clearly identified

this is so bizarre that I just couldn't resist - sorry...

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-01-25 19:26 ]

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:32 pm

Lexicon MPX1, digital I/O, it's like a Scope module, functioning via SPDIF, and sounds very good

I'm on mac, no VIA, but even I do know VIA is something death in pot

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:37 pm

Be sure that the pci limitation you find so noticeable with the STW reverbs, is the same affecting all of your pci tasks comparing your VIA chipset system with others. So the number of Masterverbs, delays,Asio channels, Sample playback channels etc. will be much worst of what you can get with some more recommended chipsets.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:10 am

One thing that might help with the VIA chipset is to download the latest "3-in-1" drivers for your MOBO from http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=2

Before I used these on my 2nd (non-DAW) computer, it couldn't even e.g. play an mp3 file without audio stuttering, the MOBO was really that useless out-of-the-box.

Sooner or later, it'll make sense to shell out £50 or so on a decent board with an intel chipset. Ultimately, that's the only way you'll be able to max out your PCI bandwidth.

Royston

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:44 am

Yes I agree, but right now I don't want to take the PC apart and redo all the Win XP (re-registering), software reloads etc etc.
What 'conspiration theory'? I know what is wrong, I am attempting a workaround due to inertia.
I have yet to try the H-Odo fixes (see link above) or any new drivers as mentioned, perhaps this will fix the STW reverb. I am happy with the functioning apart from this, if there is any problem, I don't notice it - I run out of DSP before I run out of bandwidth or channels, and I can run a lot a channels (inc. VSTi) in Live (about 24, with about 6 VST instruments usually romplers).

Thanks all

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:41 am

On 2005-01-25 18:43, geoffd99 wrote:
... etc, spent ages using the PCI monitor programs ... I have tried everything,a s well as all the usual ones). However if I remove the A-100, everything works fine, whatever I do, ... with Scope 4, Live 4, and Wavelab 4 all open, and switching between, the lot, not a trace of a problem. So it must be that reverb!!!...

doesn't this read like a conspiration ?

anyway, it was just a verbal expression - your reasons for 'non-re-registering' are of course perfectly understandable.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-01-26 07:44 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:45 pm

it's not that hard if you can follow directions. one day's trouble to clear up months of annoyances.....of course, the better it works, the more one wants....

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Hi all
well I am all tweaked out, with no success, and have decided to get a Mac rather than a new mobo (it is just too boring to take the whole thing apart to get one reverb to work.... even if it sounds great!) so I tried to get an I-100 sfx sound (sort of) and got some nice fx out of:
Celmo Pro Vintage Delay into
CW E-Reflector;
perhaps a few more E-Reflectors in series...

with the delay doing a short chorus effect with filtering, then the reflector doing its thing... not bad.
I still might get a Lexicon MPX500 as they seem to be about 150 uk £ used.

Also the DADev deal looks good on a sub, for the Goldverb (anyone used it? 3 dsp but PCI???), and other stuff, if I can work out how much it actually costs.

Thanks all

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2005-01-27 18:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2005-01-27 18:31 ]