Marketing Scope

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:30 pm

I think there was a thread about this when Creamware was resurrected from the ashes a few months ago.

However, it seems to be up to us to make sure that this company continues so that we can continue to enjoy the use of this product.

I am presuming that the people at Creamware lood at this forum every once and a while, and maybe they will take some of our ideas seriously if they are presented in a seriuos fashion.

I am not suggesting another list of "wishes" for what we all want the product to do or to become, someone else can start that thread if they want.

I am asking for sensible concrete marketing suggestions. Does anyone out there have a "real" job that involves marketing? You are the ones we must hear from first.

Failing that, let's just hear what everyone thinks are the strongest points about Scope. What does it allow you to do that other systems won't, what features are most important to you? How does Scope help you make better music, or how does it help you make music more quickly, that sort of thing.

One of my other jobs is writing a column for a high end audio magazine. Maybe if everyone just provides me with material I can write a few "demo" ads. With any luck Creamware may see them and use some of the ideas...

I don't read the industry mags anymore, can someone tell me if Creamware advertises in the North American market? If so, what do the ads look like? What do they say?

I know everyone would rather be making music than answering the call for marketing ideas, but something has to be done. It's in our best interest to help any way we can to promote Creamware products.

It's for our own good!

Remember, only positive suggestions are needed, moaning and complaining about what is already wrong will not be helpful. Re-hashing what they have done wrong with marketing in the past is also a waste of time.

Is anyone with me?

R

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:40 pm

I'm all for pushing the CreamWare brand, but I would be a bit cautious about "marketing" for them. Advertising is up to CreamWare. Word of mouth is up to us!

How much pull do you have at the magazine you write for? I'd like to see some kind of monthly "tips and tricks for CreamWare users" type column. Whether it's in print or online. The idea has been shot down before

but I would still like to see it.

Elsewhere you mentioned writing up a compressor "how-to". Maybe a start would be a roundup of the various dynamics plugins that CreamWare provides (at least the basic ones, but preferably also Vinco, Optimaster, etc as well). Starting with "how to use dynamics" with charts and diagrams, and going through various setups (using high / low pass filters for the side chain to a compressor, for example) could easily occupy a few articles.

Whaddaya think?

Johann

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:59 pm

Well, I think the fundamental problem with CW products is that people don't know about it. So, ads, columns.. most any kind of publication will do. CW seriously needs to create a "buzz" and make CW or SFP become a household name. Basically, in a market like audio products, which is filled with objective opinions and objective quality, people tend to be suspicious about everything. Even about things they know fiarly well about, but even more so about things that are vague or unknown. CW I think falls into the "unknown" category, and most music people tend to be very suspicious about or ignore gear that they don't know about. I think even Max/MSP is well known than SFP, and that's a pretty nitch platform.

Aside from printed publicity, I think CW could hold some events that spreads CW to even non-musicians. I'm not sure whether these gimmicks come by cheaply, but it surely helps to make atleast the CW logo stick in people's minds. It's a proper way of marketing I think.

Say, if CW wants to impose a "modern, urban, youngster" image, it'll be good if they host happenings at clubs, and maybe sell beer cheaper than usual. Eventually, CW will become a name related to clubs and dance music. Then musicians interested in doing dance music will think, "hey, I've seen that logo at a bunch of clubs". While they may not think that being familiar with a logo equals good quality, it's alteast better than choosing Toyota, or Honda. Basic branding strategy here.

Actually, thinking about it, they can even host some b-boy breakin' battle events, as the image seems to sell very well in Germany. (battle of the year) I mean, adidas basically lives off of the b-boy/club culture image, and Motorola/Nokia uses it all the time. It has nothing to do with their products, but it imposes a very cool image onto them.

It's false marketing up to a certain point, but the bottom line is, people want an image they remember, not a screenshot of complex routing, or a complex PCI card.

Post by **hubird** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:29 pm

not to hold you back guys, but we've gone all through this.
Many good ideas have been ventilated, and CWA had an active listening in that thread, no, moreover they've invited us to show them our ideas and wishes

One of the immediate results was the new website, also with video presentations focussed on the guitarlike instrumentalists (the band so to say), which was a marketing act born in that discussion (if they hadn't already

)

Also the new name Scope came from that discussion, as well as the new three main cathegories of the cards, even the price settings have changed.

CWA will have it's approach ready now, I can smell that with every new price action, like now the Luna offer

These are nice ideas Ken, really, and CWA should file them

But for now I guess the staff is far too small to think that big.
As I see it, they are still working at the basis, financial as well as presentation of the product, the SDK, and specially the hardware side (the firewire box hopefully).

I just wanne say, lets start where it started, specially if CWA itself should be involved

Let us spread the word, as Blazesboylan says, and an article or column in a pro magazine is even better Nprime

(just my thoughts).

edit: specially for new planetz members: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... =5&start=0
(also suggesting to use that thread for new ideas).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-07-15 16:44 ]</font>

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:02 pm

oh yeah, now I remember.. THAT was a long thread.

I do hope CW finds a good direction tho. (obviously) The obvious fact is that SFP platform is a hard idea to convey. I wonder how Capybara Kyma got started off.. The Kyma system is similar to SFP in some ways, and it's still not a very "popular" platform. But they seem to be doing more than okay so I wonder. Well, Kyma was used all over the place with the newer Star Wars so what more publicity could you ask for... I still wonder how they ever got there tho.

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:50 pm

Yeesh that is a long thread.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone remember that "DIY marketing" that CW tried to pull off last year? They were looking for people to demo SFP to potential retailers + customers.

I volunteered but then backed out when I discoered they expected me to rip my machine out of the wall and haul it in to retail shops a few times a month. I thought that was a bit too much to ask...

(I mean it would be cheaper to send out 25 computers, each with a Pulsar 2 card, than it would be to hire a single salesman for just one year. That's not even factoring in travel expenses for the salesman.)

Did that initiative ever get off the ground?

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:01 pm

I understand what is being said,and I am not saying that it is our job to do this. I also understand that you all gave a lot in the aforementioned thread. I think this is different though, in that I am not asking for a "widh list" of products or features.

I am saying that it can't hurt to compile a list of things that we all really like about the product. Maybe you only write two lines. We all spend untold hours venting about what we don't like about the product, spend one tenth of that time and tell me what you like instead.

I mean think about it: you're a musician looking to spend your hard earned money on a "studio in a box". So you get on the internet and start lurking around the forums for all the software based gear that's out there. It would seem that none of the products available are reliable or useful. Every forum you go to you find dozens of people complaining about how their gear doesn't work...what would you buy? Well, from what I've seen you wouldn't buy Pro-tools, Nuendo, Sonar, Cubase, Logic, or Scope because they are all apparently nothing but a pain in the butt! Maybe you'd start looking at all in one boxes from Roland or Yamaha, I dunno...but the impression left by surfing through all these forums is that software based stuff is difficult to use and requires tons of special knowledge about computers (which is kind of true).

So let's hear the other side...

How has Creamware made your studio easier to use, how has it streamlined your approach, anything about what is GOOD about the system.

Matbe you really like a particular synth, just tell me why. Maybe, like me, you like the fact that you don't have to purchase cables when they wear out. Maybe it's the total recall of a studio set-up that turns your crank...

I just get the feeling that Creamware does have it's head down trying to keep the company alive, and as an owner of my own business I know that you often can't see the forest for the trees. It cannot possibly hurt to have some postive vibes on the forum, can it?

So I am not asking for actual marketing concepts or schemes, I'm just asking for a positive thread that states your opinions on what makes Scope work for you. I suppose it would also be helpful to know how you use it and what kind of music you make with it. But keep it short and simple.

Let me worry about what to do with it, just give me a bunch of info!

Think positive!

R

BTW the magazine I write for is not a pro audio mag, so sorry, I can't plug the product there. However, I am more than willing to write articles and submit them to all the major mags. Problem is, most mags dont' go in for articles that are product specific, they think of them as free ads, and they don't make money giving away space to promote one product over the other, sorry guys. But hey, I'll try, being said no to doesn't bother me!

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:05 am

I hate synthesizers. I would be quite happy if noone ever mentioned that CreamWare makes really really good ones.

I bought into CreamWare originally mostly because it was cheap. I still love 'em for that. I can't believe how cheap it is to mix. It just boggles my mind.

The CreamWare feature which stands out the most for many users, and also which is completely misunderstood by non-CreamWare users, is: routing. There is no other DAW system in the world that gives you such control over your signal chain.

Also I stand by my assertions (posted elsewhere on PZ) that the SCOPE dynamics and EQ sound really good. They are transparent, and that is the biggest thing that I look for in a plugin. I've stopped using outboard EQ. I prefer the PEQ4. And I strap compressors and Vincos across everything. Even with dozens of SFP dynamics plugins in the signal chain, I still can't tell they're there. That, to me, is a good thing (tm).

I am curious to hear what others think too... I expect a long stream of "I love SCOPE for such-and-such a synthesizer."

Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised...

Cheers,

Johann

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:59 am

i love the whole package. it's a bargain. the aformentioned mackie control would be the topper and it would allow you to have less cluttered(!) project.

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:09 am

On 2004-07-16 04:59, garyb wrote:
i love the whole package. it's a bargain. the aformentioned mackie control would be the topper and it would allow you to have less cluttered(!) project.

Not for me. Automation is done via a Linux box with a cheap Soundblaster sound card sending all the MIDI signals. I'm not the slightest bit interested in Mackie Control, though I do agree it would make SCOPE more marketable!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:09 pm

imho CWA's introduction of various types of Scope users on their webpage does a lot in the (proper) direction - similiar to the intention of this thread

nevertheless (since the mag is laying around) I have some food for thoughts on that mixer thing.
Found it in the April issue of Elektor (well known for their affordable high end DIY projects). Its about a remote controlable preamp with switchable sources, introducing the Texas Instruments PGA2311, (simplyfied) a computer controlled stereo potentiometer.

This chip has outstanding analog processing values and is really cheap (single qty 4-20 Euro), considering it replaces precision pots and switches usually ranging from 40-200 Euro.
From it's size one could even imagine this as an addon for the A16, inside the box or right in front of it with short patchcords.

Since the PGA2311 is driven by numbers, that is most easily and precisely accomplished by incremental encoders, existing in both rotary and linear form, so a control surface would be easy to design and cheap to manufacture.

If SFP would communicate with such a box, it would mean everyone already HAS a CWA digital mixer, which of course we all know long time...

...and we could add the physical complement at any time, cheap without motorfaders, sophisticated including them.

dunno if this makes sense, but I found the idea worth following.

cheers, Tom

medusa13 · Post by **medusa13** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:51 pm

To me, I think it’s a matter of 3rd party development, as well as coming up with really new ideas.
I think Creamware shouldn’t be stuck that much into the analog modeled thing, and push things a little bit further. You mentioned Kyma, and last month I was checking out their web page, and I said “it’s amassing all the things you can do with this baby”. Later, I asked myself “why can’t I do this with Scope?”. It’s not that we don’t have the processing power.
I know that not everybody has neither the time nor the knowledge to come up with some new hyper-granular-convolution-thing, but at least, we should be given the chance to choose.
At the same time, if you check other cards, you’ll see big names involved. By this, I don’t want to offend anybody, since a lot of people have contributed to the growth of this platform, but the big names also mean publicity.
It’s like Creamware decided not to give the chance to anybody to develop things for their platform. You can even see this reflected in all you have to go through should you want to acquire a Scope DP system.
For example, what happened to Waldorf? It would have been great to have a Waldorf filter included in the devices directory. Even if it’s only for the publicity.
I think people tends to relate things based on who somebody sticks with. It’s like that old say (at least we have something like this in my country) “tell me who you hang out with, and I’ll tell you what you are like”. I think people that are not among users don´t relate Creamware to anybody, and that is maybe seen as kind of suspicious.
In any case, Creamware should be more focused in coming out with alternative methods of sound generation. Not always subtractive synthesis – analog modeled stuff. For example, a device that could allow you to modify sound by typing a math function into a dialog box, just like Kyma does, or a stripped down version of Metasynth-kind-of tool.
Even the fact that SFP doesn’t allow you to edit sound within it’s own environment goes pretty much against it.
I think Scope has a lot of potential, even compared against today’s computers, but that’s how I see things.

Martín