last day i use the pitch shift(left+10..right-10) and found great result. but can't set the rev
maybe the vocal is poor. any eq tips will be Great.thanks
mix a vocal
@garyb,do you use any mic preamp? do you think apogee mini-me is great for project studio or it was only made for rec outdoor stuff. what do you think of this:($3600)
http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboa ... /xchannel/
Also http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboa ... el/adc.php
do you think its better converter than any apogee?
thanks
http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboa ... /xchannel/
Also http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboa ... el/adc.php
do you think its better converter than any apogee?
thanks
that looks pretty sweet.
i'm sure the ad/da is very good although it's pretty hard to say that it's better than any apogee. when you get to the real high end stuff it's like great wine......
"what's best for?" and "what do you like?" they all taste fabulous IF you know what you're looking for. i don't see how you can lose, although if i had that much money to spend, i'd be looking at something both simpler and more esoteric....i'm a signal straight from the mic to a pre that is mainly gain to recorder kind of guy. i don't like a lot of switches, pots and other cicuitry...
i mainly use a manley(!) langevan, which is manley's cheap dual pre at about $1800 fed by a blue blueberry. i have a few cheap chinese large diaphram condensors(u know, those u87 clones that are everywhere) and a number of other specialty mics(audix d and om series, akg d12 and d112, atm831 small diaphram condensors, etc) which i also feed through my soundcraft 1600(24 recording quality mic pres on that baby and i only had to trade 2 dx7s for it). if i had a little better room and a lot more money, i'd have a few more choices.......
maybe a couple of simpler pres might be a better selection. for the money you're spending, you could have a couple of flavors instead of just.......and still have some GREAT gear. then again, some premier ad/da is nothing to sneeze at. still, i'd bet that as much improvement that could be made be made by buying a great converter could be could be realized from a great master clock, so maybe a $2000 pre and $1500 master clock would be wiser in the long run assuming you have ad/da connected to light pipe already.
hard to say though, really. that channel strip really looks nice...at any rate, there's no losing with gear of that caliber, although one can never really get the "ultimate" as "variety is the spice of life". whatever you like is good if you can just finish some work with it....
i'm sure the ad/da is very good although it's pretty hard to say that it's better than any apogee. when you get to the real high end stuff it's like great wine......
"what's best for?" and "what do you like?" they all taste fabulous IF you know what you're looking for. i don't see how you can lose, although if i had that much money to spend, i'd be looking at something both simpler and more esoteric....i'm a signal straight from the mic to a pre that is mainly gain to recorder kind of guy. i don't like a lot of switches, pots and other cicuitry...
i mainly use a manley(!) langevan, which is manley's cheap dual pre at about $1800 fed by a blue blueberry. i have a few cheap chinese large diaphram condensors(u know, those u87 clones that are everywhere) and a number of other specialty mics(audix d and om series, akg d12 and d112, atm831 small diaphram condensors, etc) which i also feed through my soundcraft 1600(24 recording quality mic pres on that baby and i only had to trade 2 dx7s for it). if i had a little better room and a lot more money, i'd have a few more choices.......
maybe a couple of simpler pres might be a better selection. for the money you're spending, you could have a couple of flavors instead of just.......and still have some GREAT gear. then again, some premier ad/da is nothing to sneeze at. still, i'd bet that as much improvement that could be made be made by buying a great converter could be could be realized from a great master clock, so maybe a $2000 pre and $1500 master clock would be wiser in the long run assuming you have ad/da connected to light pipe already.
hard to say though, really. that channel strip really looks nice...at any rate, there's no losing with gear of that caliber, although one can never really get the "ultimate" as "variety is the spice of life". whatever you like is good if you can just finish some work with it....
Thank you so much garyb.Manley Mono Microphone Preamplifier Monoblock: $1,600 but Langevin Dual Mono Mic Preamp With EQ is now $1,475 ...is this your micpre? (http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/Ldualmp99.html)
i didn't understand the use of Master clock http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/bigben.php is it gonna re-convert all digital from pulsar via ADAT i/o and remove jitter?
you're right.. a good micpre will not sound great if i don't have a good mic. chinese large diaphram condensors are everywhere how i can buy a good mic which is not made in china?(my AKG300B is from sigapore and i'm sure its made in china)
Thanks Again
i didn't understand the use of Master clock
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/bigben.php is it gonna re-convert all digital from pulsar via ADAT i/o and remove jitter?you're right.. a good micpre will not sound great if i don't have a good mic. chinese large diaphram condensors are everywhere
how i can buy a good mic which is not made in china?(my AKG300B is from sigapore and i'm sure its made in china)Thanks Again
I'm using the AKG 414B-ULS and I am very happy with it. I had it side by side with a Neumann TLM170 and it stood up rather well, the Neumann had more "air", but other than that I was hard pressed to spend the money for the samll difference in sound quality.
I run it through either my Focusrite green mic pre or my Rane mic-pre, then into the A16. The Focusrite is ultra simple, just gain, phantom power and phase reverse. The interior components are all quality and I think it sounds fine.
At the studio I work at we just purchased the Focurite Voicemaster pro with the digital option, it goes digital to the Hammerfalls (SPDIF) directly and sounds pretty wonderful, plus has some nice features. Of course it helps when you are feeding it a real Neumann U87, not from China!
Sounds like you have more money than this though, so go for it and buy the best!
I run it through either my Focusrite green mic pre or my Rane mic-pre, then into the A16. The Focusrite is ultra simple, just gain, phantom power and phase reverse. The interior components are all quality and I think it sounds fine.
At the studio I work at we just purchased the Focurite Voicemaster pro with the digital option, it goes digital to the Hammerfalls (SPDIF) directly and sounds pretty wonderful, plus has some nice features. Of course it helps when you are feeding it a real Neumann U87, not from China!
Sounds like you have more money than this though, so go for it and buy the best!
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blazesboylan
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se is not a u87 clone it is a company that makes nice mics of their own.
http://www.tbkmics.com/indexHome.html
i say u87 because the story goes that it was nuemann that prior to ww2 set up the main chinese factories that today make capsules for manley, groove tube and cad(or have at one time or another). when the revolution happened, those facories became chinese. the type of capsule used resembles a classic u87 and it is of very high quality. in fact, royer makes kits to upgrade the electronics in those cheap mics(the cheap part) so that they rival very expensive mics. even in their stock form, they aren't bad and they can be useful..
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2004-07-10 04:08 ]</font>
http://www.tbkmics.com/indexHome.html
i say u87 because the story goes that it was nuemann that prior to ww2 set up the main chinese factories that today make capsules for manley, groove tube and cad(or have at one time or another). when the revolution happened, those facories became chinese. the type of capsule used resembles a classic u87 and it is of very high quality. in fact, royer makes kits to upgrade the electronics in those cheap mics(the cheap part) so that they rival very expensive mics. even in their stock form, they aren't bad and they can be useful..
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2004-07-10 04:08 ]</font>
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blazesboylan
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the battery is really a deep cycle capacitor in that mic(e series cad), making it very difficult to overload the electronics...
se didn't make capsules for cad. se is a new mic that is from a new factory. i've only demoed them. they do offer a 7 day buy it and try it. if you aren't satisfied the dealer is supposed to take it back! the main company set up by neumann, i think there were two factories, is the 777 factory. both of the older factories are responsible for some pretty good u87 type capsules in a lot of premium mics(don't get more premium than manley, although they only use that capsule for the cheap $1800 mic) and also a couple of house brands that aren't bad including adk, marshall and studio projects.
se didn't make capsules for cad. se is a new mic that is from a new factory. i've only demoed them. they do offer a 7 day buy it and try it. if you aren't satisfied the dealer is supposed to take it back! the main company set up by neumann, i think there were two factories, is the 777 factory. both of the older factories are responsible for some pretty good u87 type capsules in a lot of premium mics(don't get more premium than manley, although they only use that capsule for the cheap $1800 mic) and also a couple of house brands that aren't bad including adk, marshall and studio projects.
garyb,
i'd download some of your tracks. they sound very pro-studio also a track of Nastor which sounds great. your vocalist is not bad that is one big plus point... working with a good vocal. but again your idea of doing mix is very pro.(The Room is the big factor as you said. i'm using genelec 1029A+pulsar2+sonar. but still not getting the sound that you have. do you think if i bought Apogee mini-me that will change my life???
) i know lot of pro musician using pulsar. why don't we have a section of doing mix using pulsar. we can learn from you guys a lot. what do you think?
thanks
i'd download some of your tracks. they sound very pro-studio also a track of Nastor which sounds great. your vocalist is not bad that is one big plus point... working with a good vocal. but again your idea of doing mix is very pro.(The Room is the big factor as you said. i'm using genelec 1029A+pulsar2+sonar. but still not getting the sound that you have. do you think if i bought Apogee mini-me that will change my life???
) i know lot of pro musician using pulsar. why don't we have a section of doing mix using pulsar. we can learn from you guys a lot. what do you think?thanks
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blazesboylan
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No! A "Mix" forum on PlanetZ is a terrible idea! I have a job, you know. I'd like to keep it. I cannot afford to spend all of my time at PlanetZ. But a "mix" forum would force me to do just that!!!
<font size="-6">(Jus' kidding. I would love a "mix" forum. It's a huge topic and I think it has been somewhat neglected by the CreamWare community. I wonder how hard it would be for John C. to set one up?)</font>
Johann
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2004-07-15 13:28 ]</font>
<font size="-6">(Jus' kidding. I would love a "mix" forum. It's a huge topic and I think it has been somewhat neglected by the CreamWare community. I wonder how hard it would be for John C. to set one up?)</font>
Johann
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2004-07-15 13:28 ]</font>
i don't really think that a mini-me will change anyone's life,but it could be a good choice if you need a pre. no pre is best for everything....
i'd like to think i'm doing a better job these days...really, eq and dynamics control are the main deal...experience helps too(more of it makes my mixes sound better now, imho). remember that besides creating effects, the original reason for reverbs is to create the illusion of space in a room....
two sites with products that can help your room for a reasonable price:
http://www.tubetrap.com/
http://www.auralex.com/
*edit*
you know, i think all of the vocals in those demos that you heard were tracked on a marshall 2001($100) mic through the soundcraft desk into logic4x....the blue through the manley to cubase sx2 blows that away, but still it's a matter of fine degree...
the room is the main thing you hear, whatever speakers or mic you use...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2004-07-16 02:35 ]</font>
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blazesboylan
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"Mix" forum: I agree we have too many forums already. However I don't think the Music forum really addresses the issue (it's really a show-and-tell sort of forum, and it works well as such).
What we don't have is a forum where people discuss issues like the ones raised in this thread:
Mics and pres: I've never used a high end pre before. I've heard that even an SM57 actually sounds good through a high end mic pre. (I don't believe it for a second, mind you, but...)
Having a variety of mics is always a good thing. You can get a cheap U87AI if you know where to look. Otherwise renting is the best approach, I think. That goes for mic pres, too.
Unfortunately in places like Canada music shops are fairly po dunk. It's pretty hard to rent decent gear -- it's always out (and overdue!). But it should be the first step, whenever possible.
If you can't find what you're looking for then take a chance and buy something.
Older gear is often in great condition and can be had for cheap. You won't get "big names" but if you know what to look for, some fantastic deals are out there.
I don't really know mic pres very well so can't comment specifically. But if you were to look for a cheap compressor that sounds good, maybe the Valley People / Allison Gain Brain (can be had for a couple hundred bucks) would be a good choice. In terms of mics, the Audio-Technica ATM25 is probably the most versatile dynamic mic for my $100, better than Sennheiser's MD421. In the effects world the Roland DEP series is incredibly cheap these days (~ $150) but they still sound fantastic.
So keep the "obscure old gear" idea in mind as an alternative to all the new flashy crap. If you buy something that's old and cheap, and it doesn't work out for you, you can usually sell it at cost. Maybe even to me!
Check out reviews too. They can muddle ya in the short term, but once you sort out who you trust and who you don't then sifting through the reviews becomes a lot easier.
Of course I also trust GaryB's opinion at this point (sorry if I make you blush GaryB) and would like to try out the Manley. But I can't afford to. (Yet. )
Must sleep.
Johann
What we don't have is a forum where people discuss issues like the ones raised in this thread:
- What other (non-CW) gear to people recommend for tracking / mixing / mastering? (Mics, pres, etc.)
- Techniques for tracking and mixing in SFP: ordering of dynamics, EQ, etc inserts; use of buses (in addition to or in lieu of individual tracks?; surround busing); how wide should cymbals be?; where should backing vocalists sit both pan-wise and reverb-wise?; how do I get the snare sound that mixer Joe Shmo got on album XYZ?; etc.
Mics and pres: I've never used a high end pre before. I've heard that even an SM57 actually sounds good through a high end mic pre. (I don't believe it for a second, mind you, but...)
Having a variety of mics is always a good thing. You can get a cheap U87AI if you know where to look. Otherwise renting is the best approach, I think. That goes for mic pres, too.
Unfortunately in places like Canada music shops are fairly po dunk. It's pretty hard to rent decent gear -- it's always out (and overdue!). But it should be the first step, whenever possible.
If you can't find what you're looking for then take a chance and buy something.
Older gear is often in great condition and can be had for cheap. You won't get "big names" but if you know what to look for, some fantastic deals are out there.
I don't really know mic pres very well so can't comment specifically. But if you were to look for a cheap compressor that sounds good, maybe the Valley People / Allison Gain Brain (can be had for a couple hundred bucks) would be a good choice. In terms of mics, the Audio-Technica ATM25 is probably the most versatile dynamic mic for my $100, better than Sennheiser's MD421. In the effects world the Roland DEP series is incredibly cheap these days (~ $150) but they still sound fantastic.
So keep the "obscure old gear" idea in mind as an alternative to all the new flashy crap. If you buy something that's old and cheap, and it doesn't work out for you, you can usually sell it at cost. Maybe even to me!
Check out reviews too. They can muddle ya in the short term, but once you sort out who you trust and who you don't
then sifting through the reviews becomes a lot easier.Of course I also trust GaryB's opinion at this point
(sorry if I make you blush GaryB) and would like to try out the Manley. But I can't afford to. (Yet. )Must sleep.
Johann
the sm57 IS a good sounding mic(though i won't own one!).
all mics are good for something.
i would be very cautious about buying old microphones for a lot of money on ebay. just know how much it may cost to recondition it. i do like used gear in general(i work in a used gear store)...
respect blazeboylan, mixing has been a bit underaddressed...
sometimes it's hard to explain.
all mics are good for something.
i would be very cautious about buying old microphones for a lot of money on ebay. just know how much it may cost to recondition it. i do like used gear in general(i work in a used gear store)...
respect blazeboylan, mixing has been a bit underaddressed...
sometimes it's hard to explain.
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blazesboylan
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SM57s are good for putting on the shelf while the real mics are being used.
I've had success with an SM57 on a piccolo snare. Brings out that "pyang" sound nicely. On everything else it sounds like a little pixie blowing its nose. I'll never understand why people use 'em on guitar cabs.
The main reason I'm so down on SM57s, though, is that everyone else in the known universe loves them!
Incidentally I wasn't advocating buying expensive used gear. Quite the opposite. My point was that there are real bargains out there if you know where to look. Generally the expensive stuff is overpriced. But the 3 items I mentioned (Valley People gear, Audio Technica ATM25 mics, and Roland DEP5s) are all very much underpriced. I'm sure there are equivalent high end mic pres to be had for cheap that sound really good.
Since I don't have much money to throw at gear I would generally prefer to go for a variety of undervalued "obscure" gear than get that one high ticket "new" or "vintage" piece.
Incidentally the ATM25 isn't a "vintage" mic. It just has a huge bottom end so it's great for all kinds of instruments (toms, kick, snare, guitar, bass, ...). It's built like a tank, so if you can damage it then you should be wearing a hardhat and leather gloves. Rather than get a single overpriced "vintage" mic I could get 10 of those babies and a pair of nice overhead condensers and have a fantastic drum mic setup.
But that's just me.
Mixing isn't hard to explain as long as the focus is narrow. If someone were to ask "how do I mix?" then that would certainly be difficult to explain!
So does that mean you would or wouldn't be interested in seeing a "mix" forum?
Cheers,
Johann
I've had success with an SM57 on a piccolo snare. Brings out that "pyang" sound nicely. On everything else it sounds like a little pixie blowing its nose. I'll never understand why people use 'em on guitar cabs.
The main reason I'm so down on SM57s, though, is that everyone else in the known universe loves them!
Incidentally I wasn't advocating buying expensive used gear. Quite the opposite. My point was that there are real bargains out there if you know where to look. Generally the expensive stuff is overpriced. But the 3 items I mentioned (Valley People gear, Audio Technica ATM25 mics, and Roland DEP5s) are all very much underpriced. I'm sure there are equivalent high end mic pres to be had for cheap that sound really good.
Since I don't have much money to throw at gear I would generally prefer to go for a variety of undervalued "obscure" gear than get that one high ticket "new" or "vintage" piece.
Incidentally the ATM25 isn't a "vintage" mic. It just has a huge bottom end so it's great for all kinds of instruments (toms, kick, snare, guitar, bass, ...). It's built like a tank, so if you can damage it then you should be wearing a hardhat and leather gloves. Rather than get a single overpriced "vintage" mic I could get 10 of those babies and a pair of nice overhead condensers and have a fantastic drum mic setup.
But that's just me.
Mixing isn't hard to explain as long as the focus is narrow. If someone were to ask "how do I mix?" then that would certainly be difficult to explain!
So does that mean you would or wouldn't be interested in seeing a "mix" forum?
Cheers,
Johann