XTC or not ???

BlombergM · Post by **BlombergM** » Thu May 27, 2004 8:01 am

Hello!

We are new users to Scope project with Cubase SX, and do have some questions about the environment setup. We want to use Scope to route everything, but control mixing and effects (bouth VST and DSP) from within Cubase.

We have tested XTC mode, but we can't start Cubase properly with Scope started (with routing). Likewise we can't use any DSP plugins from Cubase without XTC mode activated. How should this be setup/used?

Best regards
/Magnus

Post by **garyb** » Thu May 27, 2004 12:08 pm

i find tracking in xtc to be too limiting. editing the xtcproject.pro located in sfp/app/xtcapp is easy enough but it must be done in sfp mode. then again, i don't try to finish a mix while i'm tracking either. sfp mode os superior as to latency for tracking as well(monitoring off sfp is effectively zero latency).

i like to record my synths before i mix as i've found that i have much more power for mixing. things just generally work smoother that way.

xtc mode is perfect for mixing. latency is not an issue if i am not routing outboard(still like some of my old effects though i don't always use them) so i can have maximum resources for the job. it's nice to be using one mixer as well.

is it possible the method that you have chosen is a little closed-minded to what is possible in a full blown studio, having the tolls available that one would if one worked for some one like this? http://www.oceanwayrecording.com/owh.htm ('cause you do...)

BlombergM · Post by **BlombergM** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:23 pm

Thanks for your answer. That was a studio (oceanway), and well, our studio is a little bit cheaper I think

I really don't get it. We are very new to Scope, so what is xtcproject.pro.
Is it possible to side-by-side use the routing part in Scope, and get all the VST and DSP plugins from the mixer in Cubase?
For live and monitoring, we're just using Scope, but the channels already recorded, should be with DSP or VST EQ's and effect within Cubase, and right now, we just reach the VST plugins.

Please write as simple as possible. We started this one week ago, so not all the terms are familiar to us.

Best regards
/Magnus

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Thu May 27, 2004 5:01 pm

Hi.

You cant have XTC mode while Scope software is running. You either work in XTC mode, or normal mode. In XTC mode you work only in Cubase, with all scope instruments and effects available in Cubase. . . . except certain things. Certain things simply arent available in XTC mode. For example the STS samplers, Scope mixers, and the scope routing capabilities. When you work in XTC mode, you work only in Cubase, and forsake the Scope project environment.

XTC mode is basically just a "Sequencer integration mode" The whole point of XTC mode is to simplify things so people dont need to work with two applications running at once.

Hope this clears things up for you.

/Nisse.

Edit: XTCProject.pro is a kind of project that works as the "settings" for how things will work when you are working in XTC mode. Its not a way to utilize the project window routing capabilities while working in XTC mode. (at least this is how I understand it)

_________________
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.

/Mahatma Gandhi

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:04 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:18 ]

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Thu May 27, 2004 5:05 pm

Damn double post

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:05 ]

Post by **garyb** » Thu May 27, 2004 10:38 pm

there is a project that determines what kind of routing is available in xtc mode. it is edited while in sfp mode and then is available in xtc mode. it is called xtcproject.pro . you can find it in the directory: scope/app/xtcapp.

if you have questions about how to set it up, there are hints in the xtc and tips forums, to which i'll add that you CAN use wave dest modules but wav source modules DON'T work in xtc mode. the mixers DON'T work in xtc mode. asio works great(naturally) as do ALL of the i/o( hint, hint).

otherwise, ask more questions if you don't get it...

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:21 am

Hi Magnus
Gonzoft's tips
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=3&15
I use XTC with SX2/Reason most of the time. Best thing is to try it and see if it suits the way you work.
Regards
Kenf

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:52 am

I never use XTC mode just because I find the project page so flexible in SFP.
The way I see it is to view Scope as your studio...your mixing environment etc, while Cubase is the sequencer - a separate entity, feeding audio into Scope (& fed audio for recording by Scope).
So Cubase appears in Scope as a sound source (ASIO SOURCE - including all audio & VST instruments from SX) along with other sources: external audio, Scope synths/samplers etc.
These sources are all fed into your mixer in Scope - mixed then monitored & recorded by whatever means you prefer.
You can also route any sound back TO SX via the ASIO DEST module, so you can record ANYTHING as WAV files in SX.
This is all achieved using BUSSES....tell Scope how many you want by right clicking the ASIO SOURCE module: have say, 32 source, 2 dest (more dest if you want to record more simultaneous tracks in SX).
The 32 ASIO source channels are actually 16 stereo busses available to you in SX....any channel can be bussed to Scope via these: assign them in the VST mixer, then you decide where to send them in Scope.
eg. SX bus 1 = Scope bus 1 + 2; SX 2 = Scope 3 + 4 etc.....you can assign mono SX channels to just one side of any Stereo bus by selecting Left or Right, or simply by panning in Cubase.
Working this way, you'll find a whole new world of possibilities: you can get more creative with sounds by experimenting with routing....chain effects together etc....
the world is your lobster

Post by **hubird** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:33 am

and everything is relative...on a mac XTC doesn't work, there is no XTC on mac, and I don't think i miss it really

I just use it eventually on a party

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:48 am

HAHahahahahaha Hubird

Actually i always wondered why CW chose that particular name instead of something more descriptive like "VST intergration mode"

Maybe they wanted their product to appeal more to young technoheads and rave kids? (and to crazy emote flinging dutchmen?

)

BlombergM · Post by **BlombergM** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:59 am

Hello all of you!

You're very fun (SWE: speciellt Nisse, min landsman).

You have many good opinions of how to work. I will try to think it over.

Does anyone knows how to contact Creamware. Do they use to answer at support@cwaudio.de, and how fast?

Best regards Magnus

Post by **hubird** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:18 am

there may be one or a few thousend ahead of you at the moment...

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-28 08:19 ]

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:23 am

Tjena Magnus!

I usually dont bother with creamware support anymore, I get faster answers here. But by all means give it a try. Since they actually wrote the software, they can have deeper insights into more complex problems. Just dont expect a lightning fast answer

Their workforce was halved coming out of their insolvency problems.

Regarding calling them directly, Ive read stories here of people doing that and getting very good results. I dont know what phone number was used and who they talked to though. . . maybe some guru can answer that?

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:37 am

Hi Plato
I agree with you about SFP having versatile routing, but most of what you describe is perfectly possible and probably quicker to set-up in XTC and all PDC calculated.
I used to use SFP mode but have found the more I use XTC the more I like it.
Regards
kenf

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:45 am

Same here KenF... Only place XTC isn't really usefull is live recording... Latency is too great to play realtime things like vocals or guitars....

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri May 28, 2004 8:54 am

Hi Kenf.....what does 'PDC Calculated' mean.
I must admit, I have never tried XTC (mode)

I just love the way the project page is so visual - I think it encourages experimentation...you know - 'I wonder what that would sound like if I plugged it in here' sort of thing. It feels a bit more 'real' to me - less 'virtual'.
Also, I know everything is going to work in there, so it's one less thing to worry about.

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:12 am

Hi Plato
PDC is 'Plugin Delay Compensation' works really well in SX2.
I must admit I used to 'hate' the virtual world, but I am slowly getting used to it. I was using an Atari 'locked' to an 8 track 3 or 4 years ago. I have a few outboard effects and synths that I still use regularly.
Regards
Kenf

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:14 am

PDC - doh !! of course

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:27 am

Hi Marcuspocus
I tend to record vocals and guitars with any 'virtual' effects. I did have a play with the Vocalizer 'live' and I could just about use it even with 13mS latency.
Regards
Kenf

[ This Message was edited by: Kenf on 2004-05-28 10:41 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:34 am

Personnaly, i can also play with a small latency... I play sax and clarinet mainly, so it's allready instruments with long attacks...I'm not really affected by a 7ms latency.

But our singer doesn't tolerate ANY latency at all, not even a latency as small as 3ms introduced by asio using even sfp mode...

We do live stuff exclusively in sfp, directly monitoring mix and effects thru stm mixers, and record everything on a huge VDAT tape...

After this, i drag all the wav files in Nuendo2 and mix it using xtc...Here XTC mode really shine