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This is an excerpt from Alex Jones' latest film, 9/11 Martial Law: Rise of the Police State.

The evidence that explosives were used in the 9/11 attack is so overhwelming that three full length films could have been made on the subject alone. In this 22 minute clip Alex reports from ground zero and talks to eyewitnesses who were there on the day who reported bombs. Alex also points out the relation of Building 7 to the twin towers and the impossibility that it could have collapsed from minimal fire damage.

No steel building in history has collapsed from fire damage apart from those buildings lost on 9/11. Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary that they decided to 'pull' Building 7, a subject which Popular Mechanics daren't touch in their recent hit piece.

Evil has spread across the land. Martial Law: 9/11 Rise of the Police State exposes the high-tech control grid that is being set up across America

Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestrators.

On 2005-03-27 07:44, Casper wrote:
Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen.

(thunder&lightning, screaming women and children...) you make it tense...

makes me wonder what words you would use for those dictatorships that are left in south Russia, North Korea, and the like.
Do exist any words anymore to describe those regimes, in your view?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-03-27 09:29 ]</font>

Well , these words were not my own.

It's from the website http://www.prisonplanet.com
Like it or not!

One should respect other opinions and view of the world for what they are. Changing the world is a Hollywood thing.

But when media are covering things up in a horrific way, the best thing one could do is "take over" it's function of informing people.

The first time I saw "911 in plane site" I could already ask myself: "How did a boing fit into the hole of the Pentagon?" Not 1 mm of boing was found!

On National Geographic very often is a programm : "Controled Demolisions"
You can get your building down in notime these day's. You want pieces of 10 meters in length ? No problem , they can do it in a dynamite second.

And oh , a lot of those photo's we all saw of these terroriststst. Well most of them are still ALIVE@!

On and on ......
Now the fact that people love conspiracies THERIES, isn't helping much when a real conspiracy ( see the difference with or without THEORY) is taking place.

Well some good news is that people are waking up and give these HARD alligations some attention and just review all the things that happen ON and since 9-11 but more important WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD US WHILE AND AFTERWARDS!

And for the record as you can see on the left, I live in the Netherlands. I live an ordinary student live, and have not much interest in politics. I'd rather programm some plugins and make some music!

Now I think I've contributed enough info in this thread including the source of all the info. So you if you want to could dive in a little deeper.

On 2005-03-27 16:37, Casper wrote:
...
The first time I saw "911 in plane site" I could already ask myself: "How did a boing fit into the hole of the Pentagon?" Not 1 mm of boing was found!
...

well, some physic studies may apply then ...
afaik they didn't try an emergency landing on that (rather massive) building, right ?

I know a case where a Fokker Turboprop hit a mountain in full speed, probably 450km/h.
Not a single piece of a wreck was found, except some luggage parts 2-4 km away in the sea. I know the area pretty well because I've been up in these mountains numerous times - btw I even took the exact same flight one year before this accident...
If there was a wreck, it would have been discovered for shure - and I really asked myself how this could be.

These things simply get (almost) vapourised by the impact - it's totally strange because it's way beyond our imagination.
For me it became clear when I saw a film about a jet 'crash test' facility, where they made a jet hit a large piece of concrete at almost 700 km/h. In super slo-mo the plane simply vanished in front of the block.

Regarding the collapse of the twin towers I found the architect's explanation reasonable.
Again it's something that's difficult to imagine due to the lack of experience about the power of falling masses.
I have a little bit, because as a rock climber your life depends on appropriate protection in case you fall.
Can you imagine that a 2m part of rope, capable of holding a static load of 2.5 tons, could burst when a 75kg person falls into it ?
In other words 75kg fall down 2m and break something that's 25 times 'stronger' than the static load it's supposed to hold.
A floor in such a building is 2-3 times higher and energy during fall squares with height...

I do respect your concerns, though - and believe it or not:
my first comment when someone told me the news in the office a plane crashed into WTC was '...the CIA payed some poor dude to have a reason for the US to bla bla...'

well, I assumed it was a Piper or a Cesna, but not a travelling jet - and later felt really embarrassed by my comment.

I don't share your conspiration theories because it doesn't need an event of the 9/11 scale to find a reason to attack someone or establish a 'police state'.
The latter can be done even without anyone from outside taking notice.
You just do it, just collect and corelate all data already available.

Treatments in prisons (under 'war' conditions) rarely are (or have been) appropriate - in whatever country.
I've a nice pic of a jemenite war prisoner in a 70s mag... he's 'burried alive' in a room with one single hole, just big enough that his head fits through. He's supposed to stay there for the rest of his 'life'...

In my very humble personal opinion car bombing isn't covered by the genovesian convention, and so aren't those in context with such activities.

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-03-27 19:16 ]</font>

On 2005-03-27 16:37, Casper wrote:
The first time I saw "911 in plane site" I could already ask myself: "How did a boing fit into the hole of the Pentagon?" Not 1 mm of boing was found!

So where did flight AA 77 land exactly? On the moon?
It passed over a traffic jam and there are 87 witnesses documented here.

Do you think the anti-war movement has trouble presenting a unified front .... due to disagreements.....

While the pro war lobby just follow a leader and go...?

Just a thought...

"
I know a case where a Fokker Turboprop hit a mountain in full speed, probably 450km/h.
Not a single piece of a wreck was found, except some luggage parts 2-4 km away in the sea. I know the area pretty well because I've been up in these mountains numerous times - btw I even took the exact same flight one year before this accident...
If there was a wreck, it would have been discovered for shure - and I really asked myself how this could be."

Show us your source of this story please.
I've done nothing else when I tell things here.


"These things simply get (almost) vapourised by the impact - it's totally strange because it's way beyond our imagination."

I hope you mean "your" imagination.

"
For me it became clear when I saw a film about a jet 'crash test' facility, where they made a jet hit a large piece of concrete at almost 700 km/h. In super slo-mo the plane simply vanished in front of the block."

Again , what film ? Where is your source info?

"Regarding the collapse of the twin towers I found the architect's explanation reasonable.
Again it's something that's difficult to imagine due to the lack of experience about the power of falling masses."

Oh and forgetting that steel doesn't melt until 2,795 degrees to melt contruction
grade steel! No Tom , steel frame buildings have never come down from fire!

http://69.28.73.17/911ontrial.doc/cdt911.html

Also, the WTC towers were designed to withstand the impact from a Boeing 707 (similar to a Boeing 767), and each floor was designed to hold 2,600,000 pounds beyond its own weight. Likewise, the steel used in these structures was rated to hold five-times its normal load. MIT professor Thomas Eager admitted as much when declaring, “The impact of the airplanes would have been insignificant” in toppling the towers.

http://69.28.73.17/911ontrial.doc/cdt911.html

Also, how do we explain the pools of molten steel which were found bubbling 70 feet beneath the towers five weeks after 9-11? Incidentally, a temperature of 5,182 degrees is needed to transform steel into a liquefied state. Do you think fires that FEMA admitted “would have burned at, or below, temperatures typical in office fires” could have produced such extremes?

Like before , on and on... And I could get you another 50 points. But you could find them yourselves too!


http://www.911inplanesite.com/
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
http://www.Niburu.nl
http://www.septembereleventh.org
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/documentaries_2.html
http://www.jeeigendomein.com/conspiracy/conspiracy.htm
http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main
http://www.communitycurrency.org/9-11.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/content ... ed/911.php
http://blatanttruth.org/

As a protest against the way this topic is going, I will now only post here to watch my numbers go up.

Signed

Me

What is your problem then Mikka?

Bet ya that your next number will be : 274 !



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-03-28 06:00 ]</font>

274

(You edited that after the fact ya' cheeky sod)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2005-03-28 07:06 ]</font>

On 2005-03-27 20:24, doodyrh wrote:

On 2005-03-27 16:37, Casper wrote:
The first time I saw "911 in plane site" I could already ask myself: "How did a boing fit into the hole of the Pentagon?" Not 1 mm of boing was found!

So where did flight AA 77 land exactly? On the moon?
It passed over a traffic jam and there are 87 witnesses documented here.

Helloooooo Casper ?

Well, Spirit ,I think you can find out for your selve. Withness reports aren't objective enough for me! We can all create them.

Now you want me to give a reaktion on your
question of where flight 77 went.
The truth is , nobody knows!
But I don't hear you say anything about all of the facts I already supplied ( in a serious way that is)
There were also people on that same road who claimed to have seen the plane but it was a very small plane! Now I think it's better to go for facts than for withnessreports.

So Spirit , you beleve those buildings came down on them selves ? And what about building number 7? Steel frame buildings do NOT come down after a simple office fire!

I'd like to see your reaktion on that !

greetings
Casper

well, I replied to your 'missing plane' concerns by my own 'are they too stupid to find the crashed plane ? (in a 3km mountain line)' wonderings.
the feature on Discovery (probably) about high speed impacts just explained the unbelievable for me (years later). Nothing political or worth faking.

Indeed I'm totally convinced that most people don't have the slightest understanding of the power of moving objects... as their behaviour in traffic regularily exhibits.

And you seem to ignore it as well by commenting the stability of heated steel, which is of few relevance under dynamic aspects.

I put in the simple rope example (about which you can in every book about personal safety gear) to illustrate what a rather humble mass can achieve under dynamic conditions.

The rope HAS a static capability of 2500 kg, yet it will break under DYNAMIC conditions, if a (say) 80kg mass falls into it
2m rope - 2m fall, burst - obvious, isn't it ?
and yes, each year fatalities are reported in this context, because people are unable to IMAGINE the consequences of their action.

cheers, Tom
ps: I've not the slightest intention to convince you about something - this is just a bit of mechanics

Well, mechanics ? You forget to mention :Action = Reaktion.

Now tell me what action caused the buildings to collapse then ? Cause your forgetting the part when the top of the building began to fall down. Now what caused it to begin falling in the first place ?

How is it possible that the delta time from wich it began to fall until it droped on the bottom ground 0 almost equals the time for an object to fall in vacuum? That can only be achieved when there was no opposite force!
In other words , collom by collom was blown out in sequence. Just ask "Controlled Demolitoin Inc", they are the experts on that subject.

I saw the interviews with the building designer, and listened to how it was built and why it collapsed. Seemed plausible to me.

But here's the rub Casper: Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Your claims are extraordinary, but your offered explanations are confusing and incomplete. They're like the pseudo-science offering of the "moon landing conspiracy" people.

What is it that you're really trying to say here ?

You claim there was no plane into the Pentagon. Well OK, but what happened to the 'missing' aircraft then ? How is anyone going to believe your wild claim when you then offer no explanation for the missing flight ?

At least the standard explanation accounts for all the events. Your theory doesn't, it's just a mish-mash of random assertions and a few statistics.

If you've got an overall explanation for all the events then let's hear it. I would very much like to hear how this grand conspiracy fits together.

( And not some weblink. Let's hear your explanation )

Woaah, what a war there is going on here. I'm strictly against it!
I didn't mean this topic as a 9/11 speculation but.. obviously it is a big matter today when speakinf of USA and wars.

On 2005-03-28 05:57, Casper wrote:
Steel frame buildings do NOT come down after a simple office fire!

Well, a burning boeing is not "a simple office fire". It's a way hotter. Yes, the steel used in WTC doesn't melt on that temperature, but does it lose any of it's strength? I guess it does.

And to spirit: as I've read pretty much those conspiracy theories and other stories, the main point right now is: "the official story is also a conspiracy theory!"
The opposite forces are now collecting evicende against the official story, but they haven't got (yet?) all the explanations they need.

Here is part of the story originally written by Olli Tammilehto and is translated by me (so sorry for possible misunderstandings and poor language usage)
Olli's site: http://gamma.nic.fi/~otammile/

Isn't the official story a typical conspiracy theory? They talk about a conspiracy that Al Qaeda, lead by mystical Osama bin Laden, has accomplished and was put into practise by 19 fanatic terrorists. As typical with conspiracy theories, almost no evidence is shown. It is replaced by continuous repeat of the story, so it will become reality as "everybody" seems to think that way.
( Translator's note: Hitler also discovered this: "Telling lies many enough times will make them the truth".)

But it's not essential whether one impression of the events can be considered a conspiracy. The point is simply which impression can be most probably considered The Truth according to all the available evidence.

The official story can barely be believed. If it was true, we only needed to believe that

* Accidentally the war against Iraq and Afghanistan was prepared for months before 9/11

* Accidentally the warnings about possible terrorist attacks, received from many foreign intelligence services, directed directly to the government of USA, were blindly discarded

* Accidentally on that fateful day, the fighters meant to fight lost and hijacked planes, did not take off

* Accidentally on 9/11 five maneuvers were held at USA's eastern air space, in which fighting against hijacking was trained and radar harassing practiced

* Accidentally the hijackers had learned to skilful aerobatics pilots by just attending to simulator training

* Accidentally the damage on Pentagon was totally unsuitable to be done by a big passenger plane (their size, form and location)

* Accidentally, for the very first time in history, fire caused a high building to come down

* Accidentally the upper parts of WTC fell down the same speed and a dropped stone - as if the lower floors were paper

* Accidentally still on december there were some burning hot areas in the ruins of WTC although typically fall energy increases the temperature by only a few degrees

* Accidentally "somewhere" appeared many times the energy liberated from the gasoline burning and buildings collapsed. The energy was needed to pulverize all non-metal materia and cut all steel bars to exactly fit a truck

* Accidentally WTC building nr.7 collapsed 7 hours after north tower's collapse although it was hit by no planes and only a few little fires were seen in this very firm and solid building

* Accidentally the central part of WTC-7 collapsed first and then the whole building fell smartly on top of the bottomfloor, just like in controlled demolition.

* Accidentally most of the ruins' materia was quickly delivered to china and far Asia to be recycled

* Accidentally most researches of the terrorist attack were tried to be prevented

* Accidentally not a single authority responsible for USA's safety were not fired that day: on the contrary, many of them were promoted.

After all, whoever really caused the twin towers to fall down, the accident clearly was a new Pearl Harbor to USA.

For sources, look here: http://gamma.nic.fi/~otammile/barbaria. ... tnote15sym
(The text is in finnish, but most of the sources are in english)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: spoimala on 2005-03-28 10:31 ]</font>

" What is it that you're really trying to say here ? "

Well , now you are asking me to convince you.
That wasn't the deal here.

Facts are that the Bin Laden Fam. is one of the wealthiest fam. in the world. They invested in companies owned by the Bush fam.
They even took vacations together.

Now who proffited most out of this 911 disaster? Halliburton (owned by vice president Cheney) , Enron , Carlyle group,

Mr Silverstein, Bought the entire WTC complex two months before the attacks. He bought the complex for 200 Million dollar and he got 7 Billion dollars from the Insurance.
Including Building 7, which was imploded/pulled 7 hours after this so called Surprise Attack. This is on the record on the dvd America Remembers. Later he withdrew his comments.

The WTC towers were to be deconstructed before the year 2010, because it would pass it's half construction life. This was reported by Architectual Photographer Tom Scott Thomas this year.

Pakistani ISI Chief General Ahmad orders an aide to wire transfer $100000 to Mohammed Atta. ISI was founded by the CIA.

Flight 93 which was shot down in Penssylvania, not crashed by the passengers who were gaining control of the plane.

Why did the Boeing 757 American Airlines 77 completely vaporize but people were able to identify every person by their fingerprints?

American Airlines 11 and United Airlines 175 crossed paths at the same moment above Kennedy Airport. Lots of coincidence indeed.

Flight 990 which crashed (when the pilot committedan apparant suicide?)in 1999 had the same airtraffic controller as the flights that hit the WTC.

4 Wargames were being held at the exact same time on september 11th, dragging away all fighterjets from the New York and Washington airspace. How convenient. The names of the Wargames were; Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Guardian, Northern Vigilance.

Mohammed Atta and two others took flightlessons at the Florida Venice Flyschool. During that time they went to bars very frequently, were abnoxious, drank lots of alcohol(which is against the Islamic law), left businesscards and a holy Koran.

Osama Bin Laden was treated at an American Hospital in Dubai for a Kidney malfunction in the summer of 2001. While there he met with a CIA officer. This was after the bombing of the USS Cole which he was blamed for too. Why don't they get him?

In 1993 the WTC was bombed. Mr Salem taped the FBI while they said he had to proceed with the Bombing. This was all taped and played a huge part in court.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcbomb.html

Before september 11th the Taliban burned all their Opium which was a huge blow to the Drugmoney bubble at the American Banks. The Taliban also rejected the plan to build a Oil Pipeline through the Afghanistan region.


A series of photographs taken by an official federal photographer at the Pentagon crash site show what appears to be an easily identifiable piece of a small-diameter turbofan engine

http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/ ... e-part.jpg

Boeing Airplanes do NOT leave white smoking trails when they are close to the ground --->

http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/slide1.jpg

If the Boeing 757 did hit the Pentagon I expected to look a bit(just a bit) more like this--->

http://members.shaw.ca/freedomseven/business-jet.jpg

Al Qaeda was completely sponsored and trained by the CIA in the eighties to fight the Sovjets.

Mr John O Neill was a very bitter man, he was an FBI officer and investigated Osama B. Laden for more than 6 years. Then he was set back by both the Bush and the Clinton administration. John O'Neill's so called friend Mr Hauer got him a job at the WTC, his first day at work was at, yeah coincidence, 9/11.

http://www.whokilledjohnoneill.com

Firefighters in the WTC buildings reported that the fires were being managed and they thought it could be controlled within an hour. If you look at ANY video from this event you can see that in a very fast time the fires are turning into blackholes, because there is no oxygen for the fires to feed on. United Airlines 175 created a huge Hollywood'esque explosion which was most on the outside of the building.

Other tapes of Firefighters reporting bombs are going to be released very soon on demand of court.

9/11 was Bush's Reigstag fire

quote:
"
Well, a burning boeing is not "a simple office fire". It's a way hotter. Yes, the steel used in WTC doesn't melt on that temperature, but does it lose any of it's strength? I guess it does."

Your right , a plane is realy a different thing , but I was talking about the fact that WTC 7 came down while other buildings were way closer to the WTC and had severe damage and fires but did not collapse... the building was owned by Mr Silverstein that's why it collapsed.

Spoimala , i think we are on the same believe and that's good news. Let's continue to discuss this matter because it's very important that this coverup is revealed.

Peace!




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-03-28 10:47 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: casper on 2005-03-28 11:03 ]</font>

Again, a totally confused and ignorant mixture. Just to take the first few points:

<i>1) Accidentally the war against Iraq and Afghanistan was prepared for months before 9/11</i>

War plans are drawn up to attack virtually every country in a variety of scenarios. Obviously Iraq & Afghanistan are going to be near the top. I imagine Iran, Syria, & North Korea are currently top of the pops.

<i>2) Accidentally the warnings about possible terrorist attacks, received from many foreign intelligence services, directed directly to the government of USA, were blindly discarded</i>

O the wisdom of hindsight ! It's very easy to say now that "warnings were ignored". It proves nothing. Intel is received in a massive, constant stream. There are bomb attacks all over the world - maybe governments are ignoring warning about all them too ?

<i>Accidentally on that fateful day, the fighters meant to fight lost and hijacked planes, did not take off </i>

Well, maybe - I thought some did take off ? But remember, no one expected a hijacked aircraft to fly into a building. Before this time who in America will give the order: "Shoot down that aircraft full of Americans!" Usually they land at some airport and make their demands.

<i>4) Accidentally on 9/11 five maneuvers were held at USA's eastern air space, in which fighting against hijacking was trained and radar harassing practiced </i>

Maybe, but what's your point ? If there was a grand conspiracy then wouldn't this be the last thing to practice ?

As for the later points dealing with engineering and physical aspects, its the Apollo nutters all over again. These are the same sort of weak-science arguments like the old "why is the flag flapping on the moon" rubbish. People don't have the science training to immediately answer and so the nutters play upon this ignorance and imply some sinister mystery.

All this conspiracy stuff is just too funny. It's just a meaningless list. And we've yet to hear a single coherant explanation of what this conspiracy is all about.

And was the previous attempt to knock down a WTC tower also part of this conspiracy ?

So far the Reverse Vampires are looking like the prime suspects.

Casper, I not asking you to convince me, I'm asking what it is that you're continually implying. It now seems to be that 9/11 was an insurance scam and the invasion of Afghanistan was because US banks were upset at losing their opium crop ?

Is that about right ?

On 2005-03-28 05:57, Casper wrote:
So Spirit , you beleve those buildings came down on them selves ? And what about building number 7? Steel frame buildings do NOT come down after a simple office fire!

I'd like to see your reaktion on that !

greetings
Casper

I don;t know the specifics of that building, but if two enormous skyscrapers collapse in a thunderous heap I wouldn't be surprised at all if the shockwaves & vibrations knocked down a few others structures. I don't see anything strange there.

What do you think happened ? Another cache of explosives I suppose ? But if it was so illogical that this building fall down, then why would the reverse vampires have planeted explosives there in the first place ?

The logic of all this just doesn't hang together.