sorry for being sarcastic without reading all the specs...Purusha wrote: As far as I can see EMU has BNC connectors in the sync card. Also I heard only great reports about the EMUs internal clock.
A16 converter quality.........opinions?
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CarvinGuitarFreak
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:00 pm
Hi,
The converters are just a part of how 'good' an audio card sounds, as the good people on this forum and elsewhere have stated. I've A/B the 1616m which has the same converters as my Lynx2 and I can tell you now that there is quite a considerable difference in quality. The Lynx2 card is infinitely superior the 1616m and hence the 1820m. A lot also depends on the preamp you are using also if recording analogue.
Creamware is an investment, if you think patchmix is powerful? then you will be astonished by the routing capabilities of creamware. The synths and effects are outstanding, dont take my word for it, ask Hans Zimmerman. He knows a thing or two about this stuff. I have a UAD card (Studio Pak) it is also excellent and the effects on creamware (masterVerb pro, Vinco, Psyq etc) are just as good and usable, IMHO.
I dont know what your application is, but from your signature it seems like you want to mic up and record a church choir or something along those lines or record your band? The Berhingers and your 1820m will be fine for that. If you want to step up to something more professional, say for general release, then buy creamware.
Yes there is better, I havent heard a audiocard that sounds better than the Lynx2 with the Octopre and UAD combo, but I know there is better out there. I never heard any soft synths better than creamware offer.
Its swings and roundabouts.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, Im relatively new to creamware. I dont work for creamware and have no ties to them, but I will gladly buy there products for the sheer quality of the synths and effects. Pure bargain when you add it all up. ITS ALL GOOD
Later
CFG
The converters are just a part of how 'good' an audio card sounds, as the good people on this forum and elsewhere have stated. I've A/B the 1616m which has the same converters as my Lynx2 and I can tell you now that there is quite a considerable difference in quality. The Lynx2 card is infinitely superior the 1616m and hence the 1820m. A lot also depends on the preamp you are using also if recording analogue.
Creamware is an investment, if you think patchmix is powerful? then you will be astonished by the routing capabilities of creamware. The synths and effects are outstanding, dont take my word for it, ask Hans Zimmerman. He knows a thing or two about this stuff. I have a UAD card (Studio Pak) it is also excellent and the effects on creamware (masterVerb pro, Vinco, Psyq etc) are just as good and usable, IMHO.
I dont know what your application is, but from your signature it seems like you want to mic up and record a church choir or something along those lines or record your band? The Berhingers and your 1820m will be fine for that. If you want to step up to something more professional, say for general release, then buy creamware.
Yes there is better, I havent heard a audiocard that sounds better than the Lynx2 with the Octopre and UAD combo, but I know there is better out there. I never heard any soft synths better than creamware offer.
Its swings and roundabouts.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, Im relatively new to creamware. I dont work for creamware and have no ties to them, but I will gladly buy there products for the sheer quality of the synths and effects. Pure bargain when you add it all up. ITS ALL GOOD
Later
CFG
you're welcomePurusha wrote:Aha, gotcha!
an EMU 10k was on my Soundblaster and I still love the Proteus 2You actually never saw EMU in your life and probably also never heard it either.
... or rather as food for thought... ?So all your posts around 1820M should be taken more for fun...
cheers, Tom
I have a medium pro level studio with great analogue outboard and manly producing new metal bands who want to hit some medium or bigger label outside the country.
I need 16ch. for mixing through my Midas to get better summing results and benefits of all great analogue gear which I have. My preamps are top notch. So are the Twin Focal monitors. The only thing which is compromised now it's the EMU. I just had a A/B test with ADA8000 and couldn't really tell some great improvement with EMU. Either I don't have the golden ears or there isn't so much difference between these two converters. EMU is a little bit more open and maybe a bit better stereo picture but it's not a day and night difference. I hope I'll not get the same impression with Creamware and EMU.
Anyway I am getting warmed up to sell the 1820M and get either a Creamware A16 Ultra with project Scope or just go with Echo Audiofire 12 interfaces to cut down the investment a bit. Don't know yet. I need to sleep over this one. In the mean time, just keep coming with your observations about the Creamware sound. Maybe you will convince me at the end
I need 16ch. for mixing through my Midas to get better summing results and benefits of all great analogue gear which I have. My preamps are top notch. So are the Twin Focal monitors. The only thing which is compromised now it's the EMU. I just had a A/B test with ADA8000 and couldn't really tell some great improvement with EMU. Either I don't have the golden ears or there isn't so much difference between these two converters. EMU is a little bit more open and maybe a bit better stereo picture but it's not a day and night difference. I hope I'll not get the same impression with Creamware and EMU.
Anyway I am getting warmed up to sell the 1820M and get either a Creamware A16 Ultra with project Scope or just go with Echo Audiofire 12 interfaces to cut down the investment a bit. Don't know yet. I need to sleep over this one. In the mean time, just keep coming with your observations about the Creamware sound. Maybe you will convince me at the end
God is the source of all sounds!
the a16 is considerably better than the ada8000, but the behringer is sufficient for general use. neither the behringer or the emu are appropriate for a "highend" studio. i recommend the behringer all the time when the budget is an issue or for demos. the a16 is usable for real records. actually, you could use the ada8000 for real records is you had to, and if you didn't hear a better converter, you'd likely think that the ada8000 is a great sounding unit. hope that helps...
wanna know how good creamware cards sound? listen the the movie "gladiator" again(mixed in scope). people mixing in scope don't need to look to external summing. the scope card using ad/das on the adat connectors can include all the analog gear you want in real time, no problem. it can also interface with an analog desk. the ad/da(a16 or similar) will act as a patch bay to the inside of the computer.
wanna know how good creamware cards sound? listen the the movie "gladiator" again(mixed in scope). people mixing in scope don't need to look to external summing. the scope card using ad/das on the adat connectors can include all the analog gear you want in real time, no problem. it can also interface with an analog desk. the ad/da(a16 or similar) will act as a patch bay to the inside of the computer.
Ahem...I think the filters might have a *slight* bearing on the quality of an AD converter as well.astroman wrote: ....
the all defining limit for such a device is the precision of the clock
.......
Last edited by bassdude on Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stuart.
The difference is the software you get free with the card, and how much you can load.
The project card has 6 dsps, giving you i/o, routing & whatever software pack you choose.
Pro gives you both software packs,and room to move.
You can strap 3 pro cards together and have a fat time! I myself have one scope pro and an a16, and along with my Noah, 3rd party plugs by Adern, spacef, John Bowen, Warp69, Celmo etc. - i have everything i need to make music how i want to make it.
I've been thinking lately about how the scope platform has changed my music making over the last 5 years, and i gotta say, it's broadened right out!
Problems now are about limiting choices....
cheers, W
The project card has 6 dsps, giving you i/o, routing & whatever software pack you choose.
Pro gives you both software packs,and room to move.
You can strap 3 pro cards together and have a fat time! I myself have one scope pro and an a16, and along with my Noah, 3rd party plugs by Adern, spacef, John Bowen, Warp69, Celmo etc. - i have everything i need to make music how i want to make it.
I've been thinking lately about how the scope platform has changed my music making over the last 5 years, and i gotta say, it's broadened right out!
Problems now are about limiting choices....
cheers, W
Let me add my bit which is a summary of what has been noted already:
the quality of the Scope cards are the same on all types as they are built from the same parts, Scope Home ,Scope Project or Scope Professional ALL sound the same. the amount of DSP differs and the amount of extra Software differs.
Scope 4.5 software* version comes with all cards:.
Scope Home (3DSP) comes with Scope 4.5 version
Scope Project (6DSP) comes with Scope 4.5 version + ONE Extra software Pack
Scope Prof (14DSP) Comes with Scope 4.5 + TWO extra software packs
The A16 Ultra uses the same converters usend on the Scope cards. So if the Scopes sound good then the A16s U will sound good.
A16 U does Not have Firewire. It is a simply AD/DA converter box.
It has ADAT for 16 Ch) and Zlink to connect to Scope cards with Zlink I/O in order to get ALL 16 I/O at 96Khz since ADAT lightpile carry only 4 ch at 96Khz (using the bit Splitting)
the Scope Home with ADAT Plate (known as Scope Home 4.5) comes with an extra plate making this card a 72 I/O (36ins and 36outs). 2x Zlink + 2x ADAT + SPDIF+analog
Purusha: However X-mas is almost here and Creamware will have its specials to offers soon. I mean real soon.
Keep watching any minute now. there will be combos (card + A16 + Software) and there will also be Combos (card + software)
in case you need to know what comes with Scope 4.5 version:
Main Studiotools Package:
MasterVerb, MasterVerb Classic, Compressor, Limiter, Gate Expander, Parametric EQ, 4-Pole Filter, High Cut Filter, Low Cut Filter, Chorus, Flanger Phaser, Delay, Distortion, STM 1632, STM 16 S, Source, Dest, Master, MasterEffect, AuxRack, ControlRoom, Meterbridge, Channel.
Effects Package 1:
4-Tap Chorus, AutoPan, AutoWah, Delay LCR, Delay LCR Long,Delay Long, Dither/Shaper, Dual Delay, Dual Delay Long, Early, Reflector, Harmonic Chorus, Harmonic Flanger, Hexa Chorus, Multitap Delay, Overdrive, Pitch Shifter, Resonator
RingModulator, Tremolo.
Effects Package 2:
DC-Filter, Deesser, Ducker, Ducking Delay, MasterChorus,MasterFlanger, MidiPole Filter, MidiTremolo, PatternDelay, RandomFlanger, SoftClip, SpaceFlanger, SSB ModDelay, SSB Modulator, SSB Phaser, StepFlanger
Stereo Expander, Tube Drive, TQ Drive, Vocoder III
Synthesizer Package 1:
BlueSynth, EDS8i, EZSynth, miniscope MKII, miniscope,U KNOW 007, Vectron Player
Synthesizer Package 2:
Arpeg 01, Inferno, Lightwave, Prisma
Mixer Package 1:
STM 2448, Dynamic Mixer, Micromixer
Mixer Package 2:
STM 4896, STM 48 S,
STS-4000 Sampler,
the Modular II Synth,
SB404 Synth,
Poison Synth,
MasterVerb Pro,
EQ31,
SPL16,
SBC (Spectral Balance Controller)
The PACKS:
Mix n Master PACK2:
Optimaster,
PSY-Q,
Vinco,
Vocodizer,
VDAT,
Interpole
Synth n Sampler PACK2:
Minimax,
Pro-12,
B2003,
Vectron 3.0,
Modular III,
STS-5000
the quality of the Scope cards are the same on all types as they are built from the same parts, Scope Home ,Scope Project or Scope Professional ALL sound the same. the amount of DSP differs and the amount of extra Software differs.
Scope 4.5 software* version comes with all cards:.
Scope Home (3DSP) comes with Scope 4.5 version
Scope Project (6DSP) comes with Scope 4.5 version + ONE Extra software Pack
Scope Prof (14DSP) Comes with Scope 4.5 + TWO extra software packs
The A16 Ultra uses the same converters usend on the Scope cards. So if the Scopes sound good then the A16s U will sound good.
A16 U does Not have Firewire. It is a simply AD/DA converter box.
It has ADAT for 16 Ch) and Zlink to connect to Scope cards with Zlink I/O in order to get ALL 16 I/O at 96Khz since ADAT lightpile carry only 4 ch at 96Khz (using the bit Splitting)
the Scope Home with ADAT Plate (known as Scope Home 4.5) comes with an extra plate making this card a 72 I/O (36ins and 36outs). 2x Zlink + 2x ADAT + SPDIF+analog
Purusha: However X-mas is almost here and Creamware will have its specials to offers soon. I mean real soon.
Keep watching any minute now. there will be combos (card + A16 + Software) and there will also be Combos (card + software)
in case you need to know what comes with Scope 4.5 version:
Main Studiotools Package:
MasterVerb, MasterVerb Classic, Compressor, Limiter, Gate Expander, Parametric EQ, 4-Pole Filter, High Cut Filter, Low Cut Filter, Chorus, Flanger Phaser, Delay, Distortion, STM 1632, STM 16 S, Source, Dest, Master, MasterEffect, AuxRack, ControlRoom, Meterbridge, Channel.
Effects Package 1:
4-Tap Chorus, AutoPan, AutoWah, Delay LCR, Delay LCR Long,Delay Long, Dither/Shaper, Dual Delay, Dual Delay Long, Early, Reflector, Harmonic Chorus, Harmonic Flanger, Hexa Chorus, Multitap Delay, Overdrive, Pitch Shifter, Resonator
RingModulator, Tremolo.
Effects Package 2:
DC-Filter, Deesser, Ducker, Ducking Delay, MasterChorus,MasterFlanger, MidiPole Filter, MidiTremolo, PatternDelay, RandomFlanger, SoftClip, SpaceFlanger, SSB ModDelay, SSB Modulator, SSB Phaser, StepFlanger
Stereo Expander, Tube Drive, TQ Drive, Vocoder III
Synthesizer Package 1:
BlueSynth, EDS8i, EZSynth, miniscope MKII, miniscope,U KNOW 007, Vectron Player
Synthesizer Package 2:
Arpeg 01, Inferno, Lightwave, Prisma
Mixer Package 1:
STM 2448, Dynamic Mixer, Micromixer
Mixer Package 2:
STM 4896, STM 48 S,
STS-4000 Sampler,
the Modular II Synth,
SB404 Synth,
Poison Synth,
MasterVerb Pro,
EQ31,
SPL16,
SBC (Spectral Balance Controller)
The PACKS:
Mix n Master PACK2:
Optimaster,
PSY-Q,
Vinco,
Vocodizer,
VDAT,
Interpole
Synth n Sampler PACK2:
Minimax,
Pro-12,
B2003,
Vectron 3.0,
Modular III,
STS-5000
It is not only Gladiator but people knew of Hans and creamware when Gladiator won a bunch of Oscars.........as far as I know it is all movies he makes since the lion king.....to datePurusha wrote:Gladiator? That sounds more convincing
Which Scope are you talking about, probably professional level? What about Project level? What will I miss with this one?
I could count more than 30 Scope Prof boards Sold to his company.
And the same amount of A16's. I am sure there are much more sold
He only bought Scope Professional with the 24ADAT I/O.
each PC he built has 4 x Scopes for a total of 96 channels.
I heared that he managed to get his own Mainboard built for the 4 Scopes per system as CreamWare only recommand a total of 3 Scopes per system.
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hubird
in case you refer to the Syth & Sampler pack, then it doesn't come with a specialized library for the next 9th Symphony - in fact it lacks any of that stuffPurusha wrote:Does the synth pack have any outstanding orchestral sounds?
But it comes with the STS5000 sampler, which may be quite usefull in this context with it's pitch-shifting/time-stretching algorithms.
Compared to a 'regular' sampler you can extend the usable note range of a sample significantly.
The Vectron synth with it's wavetable pads/vector processing is also usable in this context, and of course the Prophet emulation for lush filtersweeps.
I assume you're not after authentic arrangements of classical pieces
cheers, Tom