Man on a Mission

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 4:23 am

Andy, I have to agree with you with that "number of synths" argument. It's a discussion a couple of us were having at K-v-R the VSTi site. How many synths do you really need?

But my listing of those synths in particular wasn't a demonstration of the synths you simply must have, just a list of some very versatile synths that happen to be VSTi.

Unfortunately with the sonic quality of VSTi against Pulsar synths - I don't know how relevant the argument even is in the making of music.

Generally speaking I would say that whether the sound of your Pulsar synth is that many shades better than your VSTi synth is not going to sell your music any better. It's about finding the tools that work for you. A muso might just click with the Inferno for example and could secure his financial future with one song that has a killer Inferno lead in it. Yes, a Zarg synth might be of a higher quality than the Inferno, but tell that to the guy who's raking in the money with the Inferno. Do you think he cares?

We already know that you can gain acclaim strumming a ukelele and singing "Tip Toe through the tulips", why wouldn't you be able to succeed with any viable sound source?

Playing with the Inferno and Blue for a bit, I would say that the Blue is growing on me a little and is it my imagination or are the LFO's too fast? You can't get those nice slow sweeps that go across four bars which is a little disappointing.

The Inferno seems to be not too bad. It comes up with the goods, but you have to work for it. But with only a small number of waves at your disposal - of course you're going to have to work for it.

I've almost finished my little kitch number to post for everyone to listen to. I've used 3 instances of Hummel's Inferno and 2 Hummel Blues along with the EDS8i for some added percussion.

Look for it in the Music section in the next day or so.

Maybe I should call it King of all Waffles.

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 4:32 am

For myself, the appeal of the pulsar synths lies in the ability to incorporate them into mixes that are predominantly live instruments. The mix is already arranged to give space to each instrument and that to try to incorporate "fat" synths would destroy the balance all together. So in my case the synths serve there purpose very well
with very good quality without having to invest in mutilple hardware equivalents.

P.S. I am curious! Is it true that as soon as you change a basic drumbeat, it becomes a new style of house/techno/garage music with its own name etc etc? E.g. house, hardhouse, then hip hop and trip hop? It just seems that electronic music has an awful lot of variations

Or is this another of those "you can tell you're getting old when......". I recently tried to enlighten a young friend when I suggested that R'n'B traditionally stood for rythym and blues, but he refused to accept that argument. Apparently when a snare and kick sound follows a certain strict pattern, then that is RnB drum and bass style. For me a standard 3 chord blues progession could incorporate all sorts of variation in drum patterns and still come under the R'n'B banner so to speak. I am 33. Maybe that's it

Cheers!

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:54 am

On 2002-04-27 05:23, caleb wrote:

Andy, I have to agree with you with that "number of synths" argument. It's a discussion a couple of us were having at K-v-R the VSTi site. How many synths do you really need?

We already know that you can gain acclaim strumming a ukelele and singing "Tip Toe through the tulips", why wouldn't you be able to succeed with any viable sound source?

I've almost finished my little kitch number to post for everyone to listen to. I've used 3 instances of Hummel's Inferno and 2 Hummel Blues along with the EDS8i for some added percussion.

Look for it in the Music section in the next day or so.

Maybe I should call it King of all Waffles.

ok, just some cream on my belgian waffle and the i'll shut up.

if i can't make a descent song with all i have now (see above +guitar, trumpet and other little things) that has the potential to be liked by a lot of people (say a few thousands), there's definitely something wrong with my musical skills...

i'm looking forward to hearing that song. you made me hungry. i want a waffle.
i just realised that i haven't made any music this week, not even played the guitar... too much reading, thinking...

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:54 am

I've posted my little BlueSynth and Inferno track in the music section and have called it "King Waffle".

Feel free to have a listen and say what you like about it.

Something I didn't mention in the thread where I posted the song. The actual progression itself and bassline is not original. It has been remade from a 70s song I believe. Was it Eagles? Hmmmm. I think it might have been the Eagles, but I can't think of what the name of the song was.

Do you think they'll mind if I turn their song into a Computer Game soundtrack?

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:58 am

double post (can you only delete when your last in line?)
_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2002-04-27 07:13 ]

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 6:08 am

that's fast!!! no excuse then, he? well, bassdude, i'll be thirty this summer, and am really looking forward to it. for the first time in my life i've stopped being afraid to get older. i suppose that feeling will come back when i'm 35

in our soccer team, we have a 42 year old guy, who runs marathons as well. two years ago, he discovered electronic music. we haven't seen him lately on saturday afternoon games because he was mostly chillin' out from friday's rave. whatever style, he knows and loves it. he said he's not fond of drill'n'bass

f**k, i've been waffled again!

if this behaviour persists... i don't wanna think about the consequences!

_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2002-04-27 07:10 ]

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 9:54 pm

OK.

After a relatively fun use of both the Hummel Inferno and Hummel Blue Synth, I actually already feel more confident in using them in my compositions. Congratulations to me...but (and there's always a but), it's time to familiarise myself with more of Pulsar's standard devices.

I think I might pick the U-KNOW 007 and the Miniscope MKII. I haven't been a fan of the Miniscope so it's probably a good exercise to try and get something workable out of it.

OK Drivers - start your engines.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:35 pm

How many synths is too many ? One more than you can use. I often will run through a string of synths remembering certain little sounds I like. And of course some synths are suited to certain types of music. But in the end I only really use about three as the "core".

And the "change the drum pattern and change the genre" comment is very funny. maybe I'm getting too old as well...

Perhaps it's like how the Eskimos have 40 words for "snow" and some Aboriginal tribes have 40 different words for "sand". If your environment is that bleak and barren you'll find nuances and subtle shades in anything.

Caleb, your tune reminded me of Stevie Wonder meets Gary Numan

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:04 pm

Hehehehe. Thanks Spirit...I think.

I'm actually extending the song as a request from someone at K-v-R.

I think it's more like Stevie Wonder meets C64.

Unfortunately, people don't use these kinds of tunes in computer games anymore which is a shame, it would be fun playing a game to this tune.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:24 am

Speaking of Free VSTis, would you please post here where to get them? I don't have much, just those which came with Cubase 5.0.

You have certanly opened my curiosity with those VSTis syntys you believe are the good ones... Please, send me to those links… Cheers

_________________
Music is the most powerful language in the world!

[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-04-29 01:26 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:42 am

No greater source of info on free VSTi than here (I'm sure Caleb can give you more detailed info).

This is an excellent search function where you can define the category as well as parameters such as "free".

http://www.kvr-vst.com/inst.php

Just be aware there's plenty of very average freeware that is really a waste of download time....

Also try the forums where the best VSTi are discussed in detail:

http://www.kvr-vst.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:01 am

Yep, that's the place to search.

Hey Spirit, I noticed you were asking K-v-R if they could include Pulsar synths. I thought that was funny.

You know I mention my Pulsar quite a bit there. When I was deciding on my purchase, I asked their advice and I even had someone email me personally and tell me I was making a mistake. People get very defensive there if you suggest that there is something else other than native and VSTi. I think they're coming around a bit though.

They had a synth song contest and the winner used the Korg Oasys. I thought that was amusing.

K-v-R was the site where I first got accused by DXL of being a Creamware dealer and I didn't even have my card yet. Strange how when you're making an important investment you have a natural tendency to ignore such people.

But they're a great bunch of people and Nestor? Get Triangle II - it's probably the best freeware VSTi around (although monophonic)

http://www.rgcaudio.com

In fact there's some pretty impressive freebies if you look around, but the search function on K-v-R should help you out as Spirit suggested.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:59 pm

I’ve downloaded them all, very interesting. Some are really good. For example, the admE-Piano, it features a Fender Rhodes which is the best I’ve heard. I had one once, and can swear I was playing a Fender Rhodes again!

Some synths are just a joke, completely useless, some others are really nice! Thanks very much for the information.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 11:21 pm

Yeah Nestor - ePiano is actually a fantastic plug-in. I use it myself, but all the mda stuff is fantastic - you should try the JX10 also, it's fantastic. It's a pity they don't have GUIs, but the sound they produce is pretty great. And mda's DX10 is also a good one to compare against FeeMee for a 2 Op FM synth.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Thu May 02, 2002 12:44 am

Oh Gawd, is it just me?

I just don't get that U KNOW 007 device. It just seems to produce varieties of the same sound for me and it's a sound that doesn't do much for me.

Is this a versatile synth?

I'm warming to the Miniscope a little. It's a bit better than I thought it would be - although I was rather dismayed that my programming created a sort of artificial sounding pipe organ. Are organ patches really easy? Because I always seem to end up with an organ patch given enough tinkering. *sigh*.

I'm assuming at this point that Miniscope is more a bass machine - but with shit loads of oscillators??

And I'm assuming that the U KNOW's purpose it produce a very samey pad like droney sound?

Sorry - feel free to completely criticise those statements. In fact, I invite you - I'm really asking for some experiences with these devices to get me on track.

Caleb

Retro · Post by **Retro** » Thu May 02, 2002 3:47 am

On 2002-05-02 01:44, caleb wrote:

Oh Gawd, is it just me?

No, I'm strange too

I just don't get that U KNOW 007 device. It just seems to produce varieties of the same sound for me and it's a sound that doesn't do much for me.

Is this a versatile synth?

It can be a very versatile synth once you get used to its operation, but understand that it's based on the Roland Juno series synths, so it will always have that Juno-esque character to it. I have a real Juno 60 and I wouldn't part with it for the world because it's an old faithful for warm bubbly basslines and rich stringy pads. I must admit though that I've never found it useful for making "innovative" stand-out sounds without feeding it through some other gadget.

Try to view it as the machine to turn to when you just need a nice simple but rich backing or bass for your tracks, then you might see its value. I've found it to be an excellent source signal for vocoders too.

I can't comment on the Miniscope yet cos I haven't even tried it! I'm sure lots of others here have though.

Cheers,
Retro

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Thu May 02, 2002 8:27 am

in the files section here there is an old version of the 007 - it is v1.12 or something. it has a different charachter than the current one, and A LOT of top notch presets . . .

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri May 03, 2002 6:23 am

hi Caleb,

same for me when I start tweaking my old K4. If this takes too long I always end up with something unintended. So your experience is not that unusual...
Some hints to Uknow and Minicope:
think of the first one as kind of acoustic guitar and the latter some solo string, like cello or violin. Of course this doesn’t cover all possible usage, but characterizes the basic sound purpose.
The number of voices is very important: the Miniscope really lives up on mono sounds with glide.
Imho with poly it sucks completely.
Actually it was a real Minimoog on the latest 'US3' record (track 12, Sugar Sugar) which put me back in the direction of reduced number of voices.
Imagine a short synthline repeated over 4-5 octaves.
On the Sample Player this would sound terribly annoying if it was just a transposed 'Miniscope middle C'. The character wouldn't change over the notes range.
The real Miniscope has keyboard tracking and a bunch of other influences on filter and envelope which can make that simple tune sound really vivid.
All those OSCs serve for a different 'basic sound' by various waveforms and detunings.
The Miniscope is said to be modeled very close to the original analog counterpart, where each single instrument may be somewhat different to another.
If you play it with too much poly all those subtle differences are kind of washed away and your synth line doesn’t sound fat but just broad and lifeless.
I’m still far from having explored the Miniscope to the deepest, but I constantly like it more.
The Uknow, aside from it’s bright arpeggs and string pads, is very good at the ends of controller ranges like nearly closed filter and high resonance.
And it’s a top of the line device for layering, as it fits most anywhere. That’s what all those Roland JV-synths are sold for. Not so spectacular for themselves but high quality sound perfect for the mix.
And it likes poly, btw.
Both devices serve well for studying sound programming and imho yield much better results than many of the VST stuff.

cheers, Tom

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sat May 04, 2002 6:04 am

Thanks Astroman.

I'm still less than impressed at this stage, but I do appreciate the points you're making.

I've tried approaching Miniscope MkII as a big fat bass bitch instead of a pad machine and hopefully that will improve my results somewhat - although my first couple tries had me reaching for my Tau Pro VSTi again.

I think I'll just dump the U KNOW for the moment. I can't seem to find any enthusiasm to even tweak the bastard thing at the moment. I tried closing the filter a bit and raising the resonance but was not very miffed with the result. I think I'm going to have to learn later how to use it to help support other sounds at some later stage.

I'll persist with the Miniscope MkII for a bit longer because I at least want to produce something musical with one of these buggers or I'm going to feel like a total failure.

Chisel · Post by **Chisel** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:29 pm

First, I'm sorry for resurrecting a 3 1/2 year old thread, but I had to respond

I'm in the same boat as caleb was in 3 1/2 years ago. I just got my Pulsar II this summer and after spending a few months getting it to fit into my workflow, I started on a path to learn the synths. I call my project the "One Hundred Percent Series". So far, I have the EZSynth and Inferno under my belt. U Know 007 will be next, followed by BlueSynth most likely.

I can't stress strongly enough how much I've learned about the synths by approaching them this way. For example, I would never had guessed that I could make some fairly lush pads in EZSynth or a decent sounding 909-style kick drum from Inferno.

You can hear my songs in the Music forum here (search for "One Hundred Percent") or at http://www.soundclick.com/chisel316

Peace /
Chisel