Seperating two channels in the mix

cleanbluesky · Post by **cleanbluesky** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:50 am

Hi

I've been putting together a rock track and I am looking for a creative solution for a problem.

I have a rhythm guitar and a guitar playing some lead, they are both acoustic (same guitar) so have the same timbre. I want the lead part to be clearly 'visible' in the mix of the two (they are playing different parts but with similar notes). So far, I have been putting the song together using headphones and mixing (temporary mixing) as I go along... and I have solved my problem by panning the lead 50 to the right and increasing the volume enough to hear it. I have only listened to the track through proper monitors once or twice (will do all of final mixing on monitors) and have realised that I might have a problem. Has anyone any suggestions on how they would deal with this problem?

Andrew Valentine

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:58 am

You can record the rhythm guitar twice unison and pan them extremely left and right. If you have no opportunity to record then put a chorus/phaser fx on it to simulate the double recording. The lead guitar should be in the middle and a a bit brighter than the rhythm one. I would also compress the lead with a long attack to put the accents to front.

_________________

Sir samplaire scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-11-05 09:59 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:00 am

put different reverb rooms on them, cut the highs of the one that should be in the background to some degree, and create different stereo widths for both (background much, lead in the mid).

edit: Sam was faster

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-11-05 10:00 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:08 am

cleanbluesky · Post by **cleanbluesky** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:00 pm

Those are both great ideas. I do have the oportunity to record, I am recording as I go along.

Sampliare, I may try your solution but I believe that double tracking the guitar would take some of the acoustic emphasis (the attack of the strings) from the rhythm acoustic channel. I will try compression to equalise volume despite different attack for the note, which may help.

Hubrid, I have the same reverb on both, but I also have a delay on the lead which sets it apart from the rhythm much. I am reluctant to make an eq modifications on the rhythm (wishing to keep a 'natural' sound, although I can see that this might work so will at least try it) What do you mean by stereo widths?

Post by **hubird** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:11 pm

A sound can be made stereo with some effects like chorus, phase shifters etc.
Often you can vary the width of the stereo base

Choose a hall effect (with higher damp settings) for the background part, and some longer delays.
The lead part then can get a room reverb or something, or eventually the same effect as the other part but much less amount

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-11-05 14:12 ]

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:30 pm

Also a dangerous but sometimes useful tactic is to strap a compressor across the rhythm track, and feed the side chain from the lead track. This approach is very hit and miss IMHO. But if the rhythm and lead tracks are nearly identical in dynamics, it could work nicely.

I agree with Samplaire and Hubird that the rhythm track should be wide stereo. That will make it feel more "background-y" without losing any of the detail. To achieve this I prefer to just use a single take but recorded with 2 mics, placed out of phase (different distances from the guitar). It doesn't require as much time and effort as recording a matching 2nd track; but it sounds a lot better IMO than the chorus approach.

$0.02,

Johann

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:10 pm

On 2004-11-05 09:50, cleanbluesky wrote:
...I have a rhythm guitar and a guitar playing some lead, they are both acoustic (same guitar) so have the same timbre. I want the lead part to be clearly 'visible' in the mix of the two (they are playing different parts but with similar notes). ...

totally uncreative : separate them by Transient Designer (or Attacker) if available...

it's complying with the panning techniques from above, but much simpler (and more effective) than a compressor...

cheers, Tom
(sorry for shameless ad)

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:32 pm

A very slight use of eq this way, after the recording is done:

Solo the lead one and slightly boost (3db) a mid frequency that you can search for, sligtly moving the freq knob until your ears perceive a sort of "vocal" quality, a particularly pleasant "singing" feel, it depends from the guitar itself, taste is involved....

After that, select the same frequency in the rythm guitar and slightly (2-3db) attenuate it, with the same Q factor you used for boosting it on the solo.

Match levels, separate pan position (different solutions, it depends on what else is playing), use a light ambient verb on rythm and a more generous plate on solo.

This can help a lot and is a good add on to previous solutions

Post by **hubird** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:36 pm

it is