hi there,
next week we (a visual artist and me) are gonna record (v + a) the manipulation (by hand) of a play-doh like substance. the artist will be kneading and stretching the gummy ball.
as i'm more an electronic musician than a sound engineer, i'd like some expert advice on how to get to the best result.
i'll be doing it in a studio where i have: a dual G5/digital performer4/motu 896HD and these mics: DPA4061BM, DPA4011, DPA4006, and some others i don't think will fit the job (AKG 1000S, audix adx51, shure58,...).
i got a sample of the substance and it's 'audio characteristics' are rather on the soft side. there's some sound coming out of the manipulation, it is recordable (tried with the 4061) but of course i have quite some noise as i had to turn up the pre amps practically to the max.
unfortunately i won't be able to get my scope rig to the studio, and they don't have any hardware processors apart from reverbs and a tascam 4ch pre. (i might get some units from my 'day time' job if asked nicely).
any advice would be welcome (proc chain, compressor settings, mic selection, ...)
thanks
recording play-doh
I assume it's filmed how the artist manipulates the strange stuff and a close up mic would just be 'in the way', visually disturbing.
You probably don't have a highly directional one, like frequently seen on TV when camera teams chase people for interviews...
a cheap alternative would be to mount the mic slightly in front of the focus of a (kind of) parabolic mirror.
In focus it's optimal for very distant signals, if the sound source is some meters from the mirror you have to move the mic some distance out of focus (away from the mirror, but on axis of course).
don't bother about math accuracy, it's about fairly long waves, the effect will be rather impressive.
An umbrella might be a starting point with a loud clock as training target...
afaik they also sell such stuff in professional form for intelligence apps and in cheapo versions for wannabe detectives
cheers, Tom
You probably don't have a highly directional one, like frequently seen on TV when camera teams chase people for interviews...
a cheap alternative would be to mount the mic slightly in front of the focus of a (kind of) parabolic mirror.
In focus it's optimal for very distant signals, if the sound source is some meters from the mirror you have to move the mic some distance out of focus (away from the mirror, but on axis of course).
don't bother about math accuracy, it's about fairly long waves, the effect will be rather impressive.
An umbrella might be a starting point with a loud clock as training target...
afaik they also sell such stuff in professional form for intelligence apps and in cheapo versions for wannabe detectives
cheers, Tom
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kensuguro
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as an alternative, you can always have the performer
1. knead the clay on top of a semi-transparent glass plate
2. Have a strong spotlight shoot straight at the "kneading platform" so it creats a strong shadow on the glass plate
3. Put a camera beneath the plate to capture the shadows. (pointing up, into the glass plate)
4. Do some analysis on the captured image in real time and link it to a bunch of synth performance parameters
Walah, you have a contemporary performance art piece. Probably would look cooler and sound cooler if you have different color clays mapped to different synths/sounds.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2004-08-26 10:04 ]</font>
1. knead the clay on top of a semi-transparent glass plate
2. Have a strong spotlight shoot straight at the "kneading platform" so it creats a strong shadow on the glass plate
3. Put a camera beneath the plate to capture the shadows. (pointing up, into the glass plate)
4. Do some analysis on the captured image in real time and link it to a bunch of synth performance parameters
Walah, you have a contemporary performance art piece. Probably would look cooler and sound cooler if you have different color clays mapped to different synths/sounds.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2004-08-26 10:04 ]</font>
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blazesboylan
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I like these ideas, Ken's is nice and wacky! Also Tom's right about the parabolic mic setup.
A few more suggestions:
1) Use cardioid condensers. No need for omni here.
2) Run through an expander and a compressor, if you can. They will both have to be very transparent. You can always do it later, in SFP, but it's safer to hear what you're going to get on the spot.
3) Careful about mic placement if you're recording stereo -- just like recording drums, it's easy to introduce out-of-phase signals.
What an odd project! I love it.
Good luck Borg,
Johann
Also Tom's right about the parabolic mic setup.A few more suggestions:
1) Use cardioid condensers. No need for omni here.
2) Run through an expander and a compressor, if you can. They will both have to be very transparent. You can always do it later, in SFP, but it's safer to hear what you're going to get on the spot.
3) Careful about mic placement if you're recording stereo -- just like recording drums, it's easy to introduce out-of-phase signals.
What an odd project! I love it.
Good luck Borg,
Johann
totally cool setup - great to exaggerate the soundOn 2004-08-26 10:03, kensuguro wrote:
4. Do some analysis on the captured image in real time and link it to a bunch of synth performance parameters...
yet another option might be the artist wearing a pair of OKM mics - the ones you wear like in-ear monitors.
cheers, Tom
I think you may have to resort to the same trick that is often uesd in movies.
Have the performer "foley" in the sound.
In other words he/she will have to overdub the sound in time to the video take. That way you can get the mike in real close, of course this requres a highly skilled play-doh technician and some patience, but it may mean you can do it at your own place...at least it's an option if the live sound ends up sucking!
This way you could also experiment with "louder" substances that may be easier to record (I leave that part up to your imagination).
That's what I would do!
R
Have the performer "foley" in the sound.
In other words he/she will have to overdub the sound in time to the video take. That way you can get the mike in real close, of course this requres a highly skilled play-doh technician and some patience, but it may mean you can do it at your own place...at least it's an option if the live sound ends up sucking!
This way you could also experiment with "louder" substances that may be easier to record (I leave that part up to your imagination).
That's what I would do!
R
thanks for the help, guys! ok, let me add that the artist will be recording the images from the top. he will be sitting on a chair with a plain colour wooden board on the floor, under his hands. only his hands and the substance will be in frame and focus. he doesn't mind having the mic in sight. in fact we even tried taping the mic to one of his thumbs, but that introduced too much handling noise. the trial recording we did, had the mic about an inch from the action and even then the recording wasn't loud enough (with preamp pracitically full throtle).
so it's mainly a case of introducing as little noise as possible.
i probably will take my CW rig to the studio, so i'll have every creamware plug with me.
i'll try the parabole trick as well. cool! you guys know of a guy named 'scanner' (at least, his projects has that name)? he used to record telephone calls and distant conversations. then he'd integrate these in his music.
ken... neat idea, but already done. most of you probably will have heard about the sherman filterbank. herman is a guy from around these parts, and i saw him do a performance some years back, in which he manipulated audio like you proposed. he had a guitarist playing progressions, and he pulled the audio through a modified sherman. the filterbank parameters were changed by moving objects lying on a table, these movement got registered by a camera (passing the info to the filter)... btw. ken, you have a mac, right? heard of metasynth?
dubbing would be too difficult... but the kneading guy said he was gonna try with bubblegum this weekend and see (hear) whether that would give better results (stickier at least, hence different sound characteristics).
the resulting film will be displayed on a big screen with the original sounds
any other suggestion/creative chit-chat always welcome.
_________________
andy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> the lunatics are in the hall </FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2004-08-26 18:14 ]</font>
so it's mainly a case of introducing as little noise as possible.
i probably will take my CW rig to the studio, so i'll have every creamware plug with me.
i'll try the parabole trick as well. cool! you guys know of a guy named 'scanner' (at least, his projects has that name)? he used to record telephone calls and distant conversations. then he'd integrate these in his music.
ken... neat idea, but already done. most of you probably will have heard about the sherman filterbank. herman is a guy from around these parts, and i saw him do a performance some years back, in which he manipulated audio like you proposed. he had a guitarist playing progressions, and he pulled the audio through a modified sherman. the filterbank parameters were changed by moving objects lying on a table, these movement got registered by a camera (passing the info to the filter)... btw. ken, you have a mac, right? heard of metasynth?
dubbing would be too difficult... but the kneading guy said he was gonna try with bubblegum this weekend and see (hear) whether that would give better results (stickier at least, hence different sound characteristics).
the resulting film will be displayed on a big screen with the original sounds
any other suggestion/creative chit-chat always welcome.
_________________
andy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> the lunatics are in the hall </FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2004-08-26 18:14 ]</font>
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blazesboylan
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Is that what the kids are calling it these days?On 2004-08-27 03:16, garyb wrote:
just put the peizo IN the play doh.
That sounds like a great rap/hip-hop chorus line, I can hear it now!
JUST PUT THE PIEZO
IN THE PLAY-DOH
HEY HEY Y'ALL
IT'S THE PLAY-DOH
DOH DOH DOH
PUT YOUR HANDS UP!
DOH DOH DOH
YEAH IT'S THE PLAY-DOH
SQUEEZE IT REAL SLOW
DOH DOH DOH
YEAH DO IT SLOW MO
DOH DOH DOH
TWIST ROUND NOW
PULL IT HARD NOW
OH YO YO
HO HO HO
IT'S THE PLAY-DOH!
DOH DOH DOH
IT'S MY PLAY-DOH
ETC.
R