Cant seem to make seriously punchy bass sounds, any advice?

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:32 am

Hi all,

Let me give ya an over view of where I am currently at, synth wise for CW devices, I have Synth & Samplers pack, Minimax, ProOne,Profit5,Prodyssey,ModII,ModIII,Felxor and a slew of freewares.

Now I need some deep not subtone but trance like SH101 style basses, with the Minimax I can achive some fairly nice results but the only issue is they sound too moogish, not that thats a bad thing, just I am looking for more of a SH style sound, I have achive really great results using the Prodyssey as for some reason this device is the easiest to get punchy bass sounds, but same as the mini, this synth does too good of a job replicating its origin and sounds too much like an oddysey lol.

I have done some simple stuff with flexor patches in modIII that were super deep and punchy but I was trying to get this out of the synths I mentioned and not so much from odular, though I suppose thats always something to fall back on, those flexor patches are pretty sweet. As far as the ProOne goes, this synth does a fair job of stings and leads with odd FX and some lighter bass tones, but it doesnt seem to have that umphh right out of the box, the Profit5 might be able to do it, but its too new and so far my results are not getting where I need them to be, I can get the tone I want from the profit5 but not the depth and overdrive the bass deserves.

I own a ton of analog synths and VA's which I use alot like JX3P,SH101,Alpha2,106,NordII,Virus,Orbit,Bass Station etc etc, but I am trying hard to use the CW devices as much as possible.

What I am trying my hardest to create are deep yet punchy trance like bass sounds, they need to be warm, yet clear, non of the freewares I have tried have been able to reproduce the sound either, while devices like dubsub and thrust are phenominal, they are great for subs not so much the traditional dance style bass.

Any tips on what device I could use with the formentioned info? I get fair results, but I am looking to take it one step farther. I sat around last night with a simple 4/4 bass sound from an SH101 looping, and then with each synth tryed to recreate the same sound, I was able with the Profit5 to match the tone, but none of the synths could match the depth and punch, atleast with out processing.

I need some fresh ideas,

Any and all ideas/help are greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

[ This Message was edited by: Basic Pitch on 2004-08-06 10:33 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:38 am

so you're trying to do this without any external effects? You might consider a very light eq->overdrive as you can use it to kinda mimick the saturation that occurs within the box. (sh101 or anything else) Sometimes this can be a key to getting the certain "sound" from a hardware synth.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2004-08-06 11:39 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:44 am

Very true Ken,

Just for some reason, I am unable to produce a deep punchy bass like an SH style with out additional processing, I always throw a vinco on to boost the levels and transform the sound some but its the deep ness it seems to be lacking, though the ModIII+Flexor has little trouble doing such basses.

Im curious to see what others use for this type of sound, these synths "should" be able to create great basses especially since they are modeled from analog greats, but just seems for mid to high ranged they are amazing, in the bottom end some of synths seem to not be able to achieve such great results with out alot of effort.

Minimax does a nice job all around though, but I am not after moog basses, more so a roland/sh'ish bass. I doubt the Uknow can handle the task, ill have to give it a fair chance though hehe.

Thanks for the reply.

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:42 pm

Never underestimate the UKnow007. I still use the UKnow and Blue all the time despite their age. The UKnow will probably need an external filter to give it a rounder sound. D-Filter should work.

I also like to use the 4-Pole Filter with either a low LFO rate or none at all and do delicate sweeps with a wide Q trying to match the frequency of the peak with the note I'm playing. It gives the bass tone a sense of motion. The Minimax works well with this trick (if you can call it that) too.

Sam

Post by **hubird** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:41 pm

also don't underestimate the special character of a synth...it's in the word!
I admit: I would like to have that sound too, maybe I'm gonne try the Uknow007 or other 'simple synths again

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:48 pm

ok, it's primitive - but possibly another case for Dr. Transient Designer ?

cheers, Tom

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:25 pm

three-o-three?

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:58 am

Most modern bass sounds are layered...

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:51 am

If you can't get decent basses with all those synths you have, I'd say the problem is with you and not with the synths (no offence!).
And if you already have an SH-101 that gives you what you want, why are you trying to get that sound out of other synths anyway?

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:57 am

Its not that I cant get a decent bass sound out of all the synths, its out of a few that I listed

As far as why not just use the SH101? Simple, I would like to be able to use some of the scope synths to handle the task, eventually I plan to more than likely go 100% digital and ditch the patch bays and 100's of cables associated with outboard & analog gear, besides, with all those synths comes a huge degree of versatility.

Funny enough I have Trilogy aswell and though there are tuns of great basses for synth parts you lose a great deal of control, no ways to make your own fresh sounds, though thats a great device.

Maybe ill post some audio samples of what I am getting at to make it more clear about the bottom end differences that I am finding difficult with some synths in the Scope system to achieve.

Cheers!

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:17 pm

Yeah, some audio examples would be great.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:01 pm

Hola,

Well after some foolin around today, it seems that the Prodyssey with alot of compression is the king in my world for CW driven bass lines. While the Minimax can make amazing basses its such a good emulation the basses just sound so moogish which is not what I am after at the moment.

After to listening to the playback, with heavy processing the CW Prodyssey gets super heavy on the bass side, guess I just needed more tweaking, I wonder if the Prophet series are capable of the same.

I am gonna make an uploead this afternoon of some testing

Cheers!

[ This Message was edited by: Basic Pitch on 2004-08-07 15:09 ]

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:31 pm

I've got Pro-One (old ver of ProTone) and it does a great job with basses. Can't comment on the Prophet emulations but the blurb on the Creamware site specifically lists basses & leads

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:20 am

I have the Pro-One (the zarg version) and I use it for basses all the time. Great fun if you use the sequencer too

It does go really deep, especially once you start doubling up the oscillators.

wavelength · Post by **wavelength** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:16 pm

my OP-8 is punchy as shit. add some dynamics and you can kill small animals.

http://www.track0.com/wavelength/

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:29 pm

On 2004-08-08 17:16, wavelength wrote:
add some dynamics and you can kill small animals.

OMG hahaha..

Thanks for all the replies, I guess it is just coming down to dynamics, where as the analog stuff just has the thumpm out the box hehe. Both work in the end, maybe I will put together a preset block for some devices dedicated to specific needs so future people can benefit with greater ease

Cheers and thanks again all.

wavelength · Post by **wavelength** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:15 am

mr swim · Post by **mr swim** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:40 am

On 2004-08-07 15:01, Basic Pitch wrote:
Hola,

Well after some foolin around today, it seems that the Prodyssey with alot of compression is the king in my world for CW driven bass lines.
[ This Message was edited by: Basic Pitch on 2004-08-07 15:09 ]

Compression is definitely the key I am sure (not that I am very skilled with these things, but if I keep fiddling round with them, and put the attack pretty late, they sometimes get that punch that you seem to want)

What about adding a cutoff envelope with the same attack as the compressor too ? That would give you a little bit of that 'wooow' that trancey basses seem to have.

Anyway, let us know of any more developments.

Cheers.