TRICK: Huge kicks and toms, 80s snares

Tips and advice for getting the most from Scope. No questions here please.

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blazesboylan
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Post by blazesboylan »

Hi all.

These mixing tricks aren't specific to SCOPE, but I'll explain how to go about achieving them in SFP.

I'll start off with a trick I learned years ago, but have never had any use for. It's definitely suited to 80s-sounding snare drums. :razz:

Take the output of your snare drum (whether it's a "live" track or a sample) and plug it into the Side Chain input of a mono gate. Then hook up the "Test Signal" out of a Control Room module to the gate's input.

Dial in a test signal of pink or white noise (pink noise is probably better for this purpose since the ultra-high-frequency content is lower).

Mix the output of the gate and the output of the original snare source.

Set up the gate with fast attack and release. Play with the threshold until the noise starts and stops like a snare chain crackling.

Code: Select all

   ______________
  | Control Room |
  | Test Signal  |
  |______________|
       |      _____________       _______
       |___ | Gate    Out | __ |       |
           / |             |   / | Micro |
        ___ | (Side       |  _ | Mixer |
        |  / | Chain in)   | | / |_______|
        |    |_____________| |
   _____________             |
  | Drum Source |____________|
  |_____________|
The old school way of doing this was using TV static, rather than a proper noise generator.

The sound is far too brittle for my tastes. However on another board a few weeks ago I came across a great trick that is related. Same idea, but it's designed to fatten up kicks and toms.

Take the output of your kick and plug it into the side chain of the gate. Send the Control Room test signal into the gate's input. Set up a Sine Wave test signal and dial in a frequency to taste. 150 Hz makes a huge sounding kick. 250 gives you more of a jazzy feel.

(Apparently lengthening the release time gives you more of a "hip-hop" feel, though I wouldn't know. :smile:)

Cheers,

Johann
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at0m
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Post by at0m »

In modular you can take a Noise module, get the BPF output, and mix it with the original. As suited, grab another AD/ADSR and mix post, or just mix pre the tom part's VCA... An Envelope Follower instead of a second ADSR would do the same trick, but I think that uses a bit more dsp.

I also like to add a bit of noise to the kick of let's say Flexor's 80ies patch, which I often find too static. This can be mixed in with the audio or as FM, both have similar results. The snare of that 80ies patch has some noise mixed in with the tom part already, and the hihats make their noise through FM.

Fun to play with eh :smile:
more has been done with less
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valis
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Post by valis »

Personally I prefer my drums to be sample accurate especially when I work at 170-176 bpm so I would replicate most of this in the sampler. I might use a similar modular or SFP setup to 'dial' everything in before sampling the raw sounds individually and layering them in the sampler though.

When I'm below 120bpm (dub etc) its definately not so critical and obviously you have greater realtime control when not sampling.
Plato
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Post by Plato »

Also a 40 or 50 Hz Triangle Wave adds a nice sub to kicks
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Post by Shayne White »

I tried all this but it never seemed to sound like anything but a snare drum with noise mixed in. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

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Shayne White
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Post by Shayne White »

Actually, with some more tweaking I got it to sound REALLY GOOD!!! I've been looking for an 80's snare drum sound for a long time -- so this is how they did it! Thanks!

Man, the tricks they don't teach you these days...

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blazesboylan
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Post by blazesboylan »

Shayne, if your kick drum sounds like a snare then I'd say you're definitely doing something wrong! :lol:

The snare trick is really cheezy anyway. I never liked it. I really only posted it for historical purposes. I think that anyone who historically hooked up a TV to a gate to create "snare chain" effect was historically a historical idiot.

The kick is where it's at IMHO. (Although I haven't played with it much on toms yet.)

I have a small jazz kick (20") and man when I discovered the 150Hz trick I was ecstatic. Try it out. If it doesn't work for you then pester me and I'll put up a sample of "before" and "after".

I still haven't tried the other tricks here, am particularly curious about the triangle wave that Plato suggested...

Cheers,

Johann
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valis
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Post by valis »

In reading this when I posted above I was really thinking that its typical practice in d&b to split your drums out across channels and have 1 channel for the 'low' of the kick (909 or KickMe! sample with LP filtering) and another channel for the 'hi' (your 'kick' sample itself highpassed). Tune the sample start time to adjust phase to maximize the impact sound and filter cutoff points to maximize low end.

For snares and toms layering with more than 2 samples using different envelopes/start points/filters can allow you to achieve 'huge' sounding hits and still retain the impact.

For example with a snare taking the same snare (or another) and detuning it an octave against itself (perhaps an octave and a few cents just to make things more interesting) and then adjusting the envelope so it doesn't interfere with the attack phase (20-40ms attack) and a bit of eq or bandpass filtering and you can really make a snare seem larger. 2-3 samples layered in this way can be even better (or worse :razz: ).

Yet another trick is to use a compressor with extremely fast attack (logic silver compressor/waves/TC etc) and have the 2nd (layered) snare sample with 0 attack to smash/limit the layered in sound and remove the attack, then with your 'main' snare set a nice healthy attack (8-15ms) and a fast release so it has real snap and a bit of pump, then layer the two together with some eq work. The 'punchy' snare will define your attack and you can mix in the 'flattened' snare to give depth/room noise etc.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2004-07-17 03:52 ]</font>
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