What would we have missed without all that?
PATIENCE AND CALMING DOWN!!!
why don't we discuss at the "open bar",
where we can express our frustration,
caused by rhe same passion, making music
and making it "with" Creamwareaudio.
so, i feel nervous, reading the posts, expecting
also news from what i consider a very good,
company,even if it is a little weak(financially).
working on a mac, i hope (but it isn't a question!),
cwaudio will develop the product under osx.
anyway, i won't leave cw nor my mac.
cw has developped a very smart system, with
quality, and i think we have to trust them.
do you know a lot of companies, telling the customers "we are listening to you",with effects.
i don't.
i'm telling myself to be patient.
so, don't blame what you love, it's destructive,
without undo!
let's drink a "coupe de champagne" to the future
of cwaudio!!!
where we can express our frustration,
caused by rhe same passion, making music
and making it "with" Creamwareaudio.
so, i feel nervous, reading the posts, expecting
also news from what i consider a very good,
company,even if it is a little weak(financially).
working on a mac, i hope (but it isn't a question!),
cwaudio will develop the product under osx.
anyway, i won't leave cw nor my mac.
cw has developped a very smart system, with
quality, and i think we have to trust them.
do you know a lot of companies, telling the customers "we are listening to you",with effects.
i don't.
i'm telling myself to be patient.
so, don't blame what you love, it's destructive,
without undo!
let's drink a "coupe de champagne" to the future
of cwaudio!!!
-
kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: BPM 60 to somewhere around 150
- Contact:
well, it all seems a bit strange. I totally agree with this thread's intent. Why are we ranting in the first place? Why can't we just be customers? The community based structure of CW gear has created an illusion that we are part of the dev chain, that we are part of the company. Well, no. We're all still consumers, and we buy what they give us. The power structure is obvious. And I'm not unhappy about it either. It's their job to keep a company running, and it's our job to keep our musical careers going. 2 different objectives, 2 different routes.
Sure, we can talk about it, but it doesn't have to become a "CW sucks because..." or "they should do things the way I see it". Be a bit modest, we don't run their company, even though they depend on our consuming. Imagine if you were writing up new software, and the whole community started to talk shit about you right before the release. Would you be motivated to hurry up? Probably not.
Just let them do their work. They're the only ones that can do it and be appreciative about it. Our whining won't make the task any easier for them.
Sure, we can talk about it, but it doesn't have to become a "CW sucks because..." or "they should do things the way I see it". Be a bit modest, we don't run their company, even though they depend on our consuming. Imagine if you were writing up new software, and the whole community started to talk shit about you right before the release. Would you be motivated to hurry up? Probably not.
Just let them do their work. They're the only ones that can do it and be appreciative about it. Our whining won't make the task any easier for them.
I had this thought. It may not be bullet proof. But there maybe a litle tiny bit of something in it.
Samplaire wrote:
"But we are humanbeings and, please, leave us rights to have our own opinions..."
That is true, but look at the info thread for old users. There is a lot of people discussing and trying in many different ways to change other peoples opinions.
I think Gen is right in somethings. I do too see a division of the community. I just more see 3 categories.
1) patient ones
2) impatient ones
3) patient toward CWA, but impatient toward category 2
There is a huge amount of very speculative speculation. And there is spend a huge amount of man hours in this forum, by people who represent all three categories. Why are we doing it? I have some guesses, wich may fit some people more than others.
a) Why are people posting rants here? I start to question that more and more. What do they think they will gain from it? It is shure not the most logical route to go, if you want CWA to hear you. So who is it, you want to hear it? I can hardly see, that it can be anyone but the other users. And why do you want to tell it to us? There may be more reasons. And I truly believe, that human beings are not always fully/truly awary of the reasons wich drive them.
a1) Maybe somebody writes it, because he hopes to be brought back to a positive view. Kind of a negative way to do it, but I am amazed at how much helpfullness people often get, if they just state that something (deffinitely NOT an error 40) is wrong in the "right" emotional way. It often helps more, than just asking the same question without making any noise.
a2) What other outcomes can drive a person to write something, wich is just pure rant? A personal (or proffessional from an annonymous "competitor") anger towards could be a reason. In that case, this is the logical route to go. Do not inform CWA - but try and disturb the user base. These kind of posts often make the category 1 and 3 people post in defense of CWA - because they find the original post unfair/unjust. This most often just gives the ranter a chance to repeat his rant (especially, if he is answered by a category 3 person).
a3) Maybe a ranter just needs to get his frustration out. But why do that here? Especially, if you are a newcommer? To me, the logical route would be to vent it out with some friends, if I am truly frustrated about something. And if you are just a newcommer - do you realy considder us your friends? Or do you actually have an intention to harm CWA?
b) Then there is the endless talks about what is fair. Fair does not - and will never exist in terms of ulitame equalness.
b1) Is it fair to give something to the new custommers and not give it to the old custommers? Yes - because the old custommers got, what they paid for. No because the old custommers paid the same/more then the new custommers. No, because some old custommers paid for the stuff already. Why should they accept, that non-buying old custommers should get for free, what they themselves payed for? A point system would disqualify this last "no".
b2) Is it fair to give something to the old custommers and not give it to the new custommers? Yes, because the old custommer supported CW(A). No, because the old custommers did not support CWA - they bought things, because they wanted the things. People who wants to spend money on charity would usually send their money to people who a living very hard lives - not to a financial company - 9.999/10.000 I just do not buy that kind of "I supported them" reasoning.
b3) Is it at all relevant to talk about fair? Yes, because we should all be treated equally - just because that is fair. No, because that kind of fair just does not exist. Is it realy fair, that you have lived a life, where you have had the financial oportunity to buy a CWA card, while millions of people live for less than a $ a day, and thousands are starving to death every day (and no, thay could no just all get a job, wich is not there)? I call it relative luck, that you are in your position (your life may be shit anyway). No, because CWA are not your personal friends. Why should they give anything to you, that they did not have to give you? Did you ever help them taking care of their kids, while they where taking a rare night off with their wives? Did you ever help them push their car, when it could not start?
a4) The many opinions in this discussion has been repeated eeeeeeeendlesly.
c) Then there are the endless discussions about what is a good way to run a bussiness. Especially the plug-in-giving-away part is often rather predictable.
c1) Somebody would like to have an MM/SS pack, "therefor" they conclude, that it would be wice if CWA gave away these packages for free to the existing custommers. They say, that it would make CWA sell more DSPs. Maybe. And maybe CWA could have earned the same amount of money on just selling the plugs - with less potential ebay cards to cut down sales of new cards. Maybe CWA would just have not earned too much with these specific custommers anyway. They didn't buy the stuff yet - would they have done it later on? Maybe. I always find it amasing, that most of the people, who concludes that it would be good for CWA to give out specific plug-ins actually do not have said plug-ins. But they would like to have them. And they would like to have them for free. So if CWA does, as the custommers prescribes is good, then the custommer will NOT later on pay CWA for that specific plug-in.
c2) Somebody thinks that it would be good for CWA not to give away plug-ins for free. They may be right. They may be wrong. Personally I am mostly in that category.
c3) The many opinions in this discussion has been repeated eeeeeeeendlesly.
It truly is amazing how much time some of us spend on repeating ourselves over and over and over. Then somebody else who didn't read it all comes and makes a post. And we again repeat it over and over and over.
And more: These discussions do take more and more space on PlanetZ. I think it has realy escalated. PlanetZ used to be a more fruitfull place (IMO). Now it os more and more becomming a ranters vs. deranters area. I have thought of this for some time, and I think I will actually let Gen's post be my inspiration for taking the step. I will try and stay clear of the raniting threads. It will be hard, because I find most of it to be bullshit. And I want to make the unjust just. But it does take a lot of time, and it does give the ranter an oportunity to repeat himself. Braincell wrote:
"By the way, ganging up and calling me rude names will just make me post more."
I find that he is rigth in this respect. I tend to belive, that braincell feels it this way. I feel it that way too sometimes. I do take part in it sometimes. I do find, that there is a reason, that it happens. I do think, that braincell has one version of this reason, while most of the community has another view wich some of the members repeatedly has tried to explain to him - apearantly with no luck. I do think, that braincell can look like a very clever troll at times. Anyway, I am drifting from my subject. My reason for bringin in this quote was, that I find it relevant, because it describes something, wich has somewhat the same flavour. When I answer a ranter, I in effect do not do CWA any justice by defending them (even, if it may be just to do so). I only give the ranter a reason to reply to my post and rerant.
Some people - Tom (astroman) is one good exaple - can often realy take ranters from a positive ancle and somewhat disarm them - and maybe even bring some of them a little bit of peace in their ( mostly either frustrated or dysfunctional) minds. But I am not Tom, so I will "just" try and quit repeating myself over and over and over and over ...
Maybe somebody can use some of this. I can anyway, so that justifies the time I took writing it (not the time it tookk you reading it).
Immanuel
Samplaire wrote:
"But we are humanbeings and, please, leave us rights to have our own opinions..."
That is true, but look at the info thread for old users. There is a lot of people discussing and trying in many different ways to change other peoples opinions.
I think Gen is right in somethings. I do too see a division of the community. I just more see 3 categories.
1) patient ones
2) impatient ones
3) patient toward CWA, but impatient toward category 2
There is a huge amount of very speculative speculation. And there is spend a huge amount of man hours in this forum, by people who represent all three categories. Why are we doing it? I have some guesses, wich may fit some people more than others.
a) Why are people posting rants here? I start to question that more and more. What do they think they will gain from it? It is shure not the most logical route to go, if you want CWA to hear you. So who is it, you want to hear it? I can hardly see, that it can be anyone but the other users. And why do you want to tell it to us? There may be more reasons. And I truly believe, that human beings are not always fully/truly awary of the reasons wich drive them.
a1) Maybe somebody writes it, because he hopes to be brought back to a positive view. Kind of a negative way to do it, but I am amazed at how much helpfullness people often get, if they just state that something (deffinitely NOT an error 40) is wrong in the "right" emotional way. It often helps more, than just asking the same question without making any noise.
a2) What other outcomes can drive a person to write something, wich is just pure rant? A personal (or proffessional from an annonymous "competitor") anger towards could be a reason. In that case, this is the logical route to go. Do not inform CWA - but try and disturb the user base. These kind of posts often make the category 1 and 3 people post in defense of CWA - because they find the original post unfair/unjust. This most often just gives the ranter a chance to repeat his rant (especially, if he is answered by a category 3 person).
a3) Maybe a ranter just needs to get his frustration out. But why do that here? Especially, if you are a newcommer? To me, the logical route would be to vent it out with some friends, if I am truly frustrated about something. And if you are just a newcommer - do you realy considder us your friends? Or do you actually have an intention to harm CWA?
b) Then there is the endless talks about what is fair. Fair does not - and will never exist in terms of ulitame equalness.
b1) Is it fair to give something to the new custommers and not give it to the old custommers? Yes - because the old custommers got, what they paid for. No because the old custommers paid the same/more then the new custommers. No, because some old custommers paid for the stuff already. Why should they accept, that non-buying old custommers should get for free, what they themselves payed for? A point system would disqualify this last "no".
b2) Is it fair to give something to the old custommers and not give it to the new custommers? Yes, because the old custommer supported CW(A). No, because the old custommers did not support CWA - they bought things, because they wanted the things. People who wants to spend money on charity would usually send their money to people who a living very hard lives - not to a financial company - 9.999/10.000 I just do not buy that kind of "I supported them" reasoning.
b3) Is it at all relevant to talk about fair? Yes, because we should all be treated equally - just because that is fair. No, because that kind of fair just does not exist. Is it realy fair, that you have lived a life, where you have had the financial oportunity to buy a CWA card, while millions of people live for less than a $ a day, and thousands are starving to death every day (and no, thay could no just all get a job, wich is not there)? I call it relative luck, that you are in your position (your life may be shit anyway). No, because CWA are not your personal friends. Why should they give anything to you, that they did not have to give you? Did you ever help them taking care of their kids, while they where taking a rare night off with their wives? Did you ever help them push their car, when it could not start?
a4) The many opinions in this discussion has been repeated eeeeeeeendlesly.
c) Then there are the endless discussions about what is a good way to run a bussiness. Especially the plug-in-giving-away part is often rather predictable.
c1) Somebody would like to have an MM/SS pack, "therefor" they conclude, that it would be wice if CWA gave away these packages for free to the existing custommers. They say, that it would make CWA sell more DSPs. Maybe. And maybe CWA could have earned the same amount of money on just selling the plugs - with less potential ebay cards to cut down sales of new cards. Maybe CWA would just have not earned too much with these specific custommers anyway. They didn't buy the stuff yet - would they have done it later on? Maybe. I always find it amasing, that most of the people, who concludes that it would be good for CWA to give out specific plug-ins actually do not have said plug-ins. But they would like to have them. And they would like to have them for free. So if CWA does, as the custommers prescribes is good, then the custommer will NOT later on pay CWA for that specific plug-in.
c2) Somebody thinks that it would be good for CWA not to give away plug-ins for free. They may be right. They may be wrong. Personally I am mostly in that category.
c3) The many opinions in this discussion has been repeated eeeeeeeendlesly.
It truly is amazing how much time some of us spend on repeating ourselves over and over and over. Then somebody else who didn't read it all comes and makes a post. And we again repeat it over and over and over.
And more: These discussions do take more and more space on PlanetZ. I think it has realy escalated. PlanetZ used to be a more fruitfull place (IMO). Now it os more and more becomming a ranters vs. deranters area. I have thought of this for some time, and I think I will actually let Gen's post be my inspiration for taking the step. I will try and stay clear of the raniting threads. It will be hard, because I find most of it to be bullshit. And I want to make the unjust just. But it does take a lot of time, and it does give the ranter an oportunity to repeat himself. Braincell wrote:
"By the way, ganging up and calling me rude names will just make me post more."
I find that he is rigth in this respect. I tend to belive, that braincell feels it this way. I feel it that way too sometimes. I do take part in it sometimes. I do find, that there is a reason, that it happens. I do think, that braincell has one version of this reason, while most of the community has another view wich some of the members repeatedly has tried to explain to him - apearantly with no luck. I do think, that braincell can look like a very clever troll at times. Anyway, I am drifting from my subject. My reason for bringin in this quote was, that I find it relevant, because it describes something, wich has somewhat the same flavour. When I answer a ranter, I in effect do not do CWA any justice by defending them (even, if it may be just to do so). I only give the ranter a reason to reply to my post and rerant.
Some people - Tom (astroman) is one good exaple - can often realy take ranters from a positive ancle and somewhat disarm them - and maybe even bring some of them a little bit of peace in their ( mostly either frustrated or dysfunctional) minds. But I am not Tom, so I will "just" try and quit repeating myself over and over and over and over ...
Maybe somebody can use some of this. I can anyway, so that justifies the time I took writing it (not the time it tookk you reading it).
Immanuel
immanuel.. i justify your post and have to say... true words.
I see myself slightly slipping into the cat3... and feeling somehow sorry for that.
It was not my intention to defend CWA or someone else. My intention of my posts was to give the ranters a soft punch to think about what they're writing. Not in anger like mentioned before but truely in frustration.
I thought i could help the community with facts i got in long and expensive phonecalls to CWA. But instead I achieved a division of the users and that makes me feel sorry for that. So i finally posted this topic to give my final statement of the behaviour in our community. Sure i'm new in here but does that matter? I think no because most of us are old enough to read between the lines, to read what emotion is inside the post. That was my intention to write the topic here.
It was not mentioned to harm anyone.
So i hope for the best, waiting for the surely improved SP4.0 and SDK, hoping that CWA would probably make a special offer for existing users (A Plugin for half price or something... dunno) and looking forward to a good future of CWA
Cheerz,
GenocidE
I see myself slightly slipping into the cat3... and feeling somehow sorry for that.
It was not my intention to defend CWA or someone else. My intention of my posts was to give the ranters a soft punch to think about what they're writing. Not in anger like mentioned before but truely in frustration.
I thought i could help the community with facts i got in long and expensive phonecalls to CWA. But instead I achieved a division of the users and that makes me feel sorry for that. So i finally posted this topic to give my final statement of the behaviour in our community. Sure i'm new in here but does that matter? I think no because most of us are old enough to read between the lines, to read what emotion is inside the post. That was my intention to write the topic here.
It was not mentioned to harm anyone.
So i hope for the best, waiting for the surely improved SP4.0 and SDK, hoping that CWA would probably make a special offer for existing users (A Plugin for half price or something... dunno) and looking forward to a good future of CWA
Cheerz,
GenocidE
Genocide
I wasn't refering to you, when I was talking about new posters, who are biching. You have truly shown, that you try and do good to us and the company by being a link. This post shows the same. It just does it in a way, wich aroused some people. Your intension got camouflaged by your frustration.
I have been glad to read the informations from you. And I thank you for bringing them here. I think, that your information from your phone calls has weighed on the good side (clarifying <-> rumour starting).
I wasn't refering to you, when I was talking about new posters, who are biching. You have truly shown, that you try and do good to us and the company by being a link. This post shows the same. It just does it in a way, wich aroused some people. Your intension got camouflaged by your frustration.
I have been glad to read the informations from you. And I thank you for bringing them here. I think, that your information from your phone calls has weighed on the good side (clarifying <-> rumour starting).
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samplaire
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Warsaw to Szczecin, Poland
- Contact:
I agree 100% with Immanuel. It's good you, genoxcide, provide us real info not rumours. But I just wanted to say that this very thread name has nothing to what your words were in the quotes I chose. It's because I come from a country where a rule "fighting for peace" was very common in the past and I reject such things. You tried to calm us down (not exactly US as you could see from my posts I'm rather a calm person) pointing us with our bad (?) behaviour.On 2004-04-17 16:09, Immanuel wrote:
I have been glad to read the informations from you. And I thank you for bringing them here. I think, that your information from your phone calls has weighed on the good side (clarifying <-> rumour starting).
But your main intention "to be calm" I 100% support
.Meanwhile look in the presets and tools forum for a small tool for Mac/Logic users (sorry for the limited use
)_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-04-17 16:42 ]</font>
if Tom would have been armed yesterday afternoon he would have brought some peace into a dysfunctional mind by pumping a full magazine of rounds into the sucker's headOn 2004-04-17 13:59, Immanuel wrote:
...Some people - Tom (astroman) is one good exaple - can often realy take ranters from a positive ancle and somewhat disarm them - and maybe even bring some of them a little bit of peace in their ( mostly either frustrated or dysfunctional) minds. ...
It was one of the 'road is mine whadda cool dude I am' idiots passing me (on the bike, downhill, 40mph) with a distance no more than a handwidth.
I could hear from the sound of the engine that during the pass he was steering towards me...
sorry for the OT, but the thread's title and Immanuel's words - tnx, btw
did match perfectly feels good not to have a broken neck or tissue scratched off to the bone
I'm better now, Tom
Samplaire.. i won't it call bad behaviour...
that would be slighty too harsh.. it's more a childish behaviour.. like stomping on the ground and saying "I WANT IT I WANT IT BUT IIIII WANT IT NOW"
You know what i mean? sure you do.. dumb question...
Well.. as soon a get new infos i'll post it anyway... at least i could not resist to post new infos... i wrote it in some sort of frustration.. so don't take all my words too serious... at least the words sounding cynical or sarcastic... thats a "sicknes" of me to be like that...
Anyway. I am happy to hear this answers and comments because it is good to see another spirit than the last postings going more and more into ranting and bumping around each other...
Cheerz
GenocidE
that would be slighty too harsh.. it's more a childish behaviour.. like stomping on the ground and saying "I WANT IT I WANT IT BUT IIIII WANT IT NOW"
You know what i mean? sure you do.. dumb question...
Well.. as soon a get new infos i'll post it anyway... at least i could not resist to post new infos...
i wrote it in some sort of frustration.. so don't take all my words too serious... at least the words sounding cynical or sarcastic... thats a "sicknes" of me to be like that...Anyway. I am happy to hear this answers and comments because it is good to see another spirit than the last postings going more and more into ranting and bumping around each other...
Cheerz
GenocidE
...and to make some just a bit happier, the new updated CW prices at http://www.musicians-gear.com
better muZic makes better days
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siberiansun
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Sweden
-
AudioIrony
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Mood Ring Umbrella Satchel
Sir