SP 4.0 and "older" cards information

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:01 pm

By that way of thinking you want an ironclad contract from Creamware that if you buy something, today, then they are bound by their current marketing for the duration of your ownership of their products. That goes just a bit beyond an agreement that what you bought will work (relatively) free of bugs and as advertised.

Seriously though, it seems like there was a flurry of activity while MusikMesse was going on due to a few announcements from Creamware (which were good imho) and an (understandable) void otherwise as the convention was underway. Somone acting as a hired liason spoke tentatively on Creamware's behalf (imo due to the reaction to the void) and said he would look into the issue surrounding the 'packages' to be bundled with all new Scope card purchases. I don't believe that it his fault, but during his absence I watched a few posts set a seed that grew to enormous proportions here with the hope from everyone of free free free! Now of course if this turns out to be not true, Creamware suffers a backlash as everyone feels the loss of what they were so anticipating.

For some reason the whole situation reminds me of Napster and the finger-pointing that has been going on from both sides since.

On 2004-04-07 10:59, astroman wrote:
yeah, it would be interesting to know about the success of this approach.
Adern wanted everyone to be able to afford the package (afaik) - I'm not too optimistic, tough.
But honestly, in this case I'd really love to be proved wrong

cheers, Tom

Unofficially, Adern's developer makes his living as an audio engineer using Creamware's products and the tools he created were for his own use. You're right to consider his generousity in setting his prices to be his way of saying he wanted to share his tools with us (thanks!) rather than his way of attempting to control the Creamware market through undercutting costs.

I suspect if Creamware were to display such generousity it would be ages between bugfixes and updates (and a 6-month waiting list for a card) because they would all need second jobs.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:03 pm

Thank you Powerpulsar for mentioning the word equalice. The thing is, that this situation (like so many other aspects of life) is not equaliceable. I think that is as simple as it gets.

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:57 pm

Just to add my 2 cents...

You buy a creamware card based on the plugins etc. that it comes with at the time.

Seriously all you complainers, when you bought your card were you honestly expecting to get free plugins for it a year or 2 down the road?

I've said this before, I think fundamentally Creaware should REDUCE the number of plugins that come with a card, just sell it for the routing and I/O at just over cost.

It works like this, say a Pulsar (err sorry SCOPE project) costs $800USD with all the plugins. You offer just the card and the scope routing (maybe a mixer) for $349, then sell all the plugins that would have come with the card seperately for a total of $449.

This is what POCO and UAD 1 are moving towards. Having the cards cheap means a lot more people join your platform.

genoxcide · Post by **genoxcide** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:44 pm

r-type... thats a natural recipe of surviving on the economic market...
well sure CW could keep the prices high.. but if noone buys it because other DSP-based Card-depelopers are cheaper mmh... less people will buy the CW-card..
We cannot keep up CW that exclusive without risking the company to close forever.. and then we have at last nothing more from it.
They need new customers and we need CW... thats the way it is...

Cheerz,
GenocidE

genoxcide · Post by **genoxcide** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:47 pm

just to complete my last post...

it's also good for us that they lower the prices...

Lower prices = more affordable = more DSP-Power = more plugins = better Audio-System at all

Cheerz,
GenocidE

Stige · Post by **Stige** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:43 pm

I understand that old users are not entitled to promotional offers, it's natural. But.. There is just one big mistake at Creamwares website. There should NOT be those letters telling us that Synth/Mix'n'Master Pack, Mod III, STS-4000 are integrated part of SFP4. There should NOT be words saying that whole previously described update is FREE of charge download to all pulsar users. Where is the official word from Creamware? Don't they have anything to say to dampen the flames here?

[ This Message was edited by: Stige on 2004-04-07 19:43 ]

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:07 pm

Yes, Creamware has caused a lot of confusion with how they worded things. Much of this discussion could have been avoided if they were just clear in their communication and not misleading. I know they are trying to move quickly and get things done/out as soon as possible, but it may do more harm to them than if they took the time to be more careful about how they say or word things.

By the way, I agree with the point about selling just the base system for as cheap as possible (a bare-bones option). I really think it would help get people to try out the platform, then when they find how much they like it, they won't be able to stop themself from buying a ton of plugins.

Creamware should consider the same approach with the Noah (maybe just bundle Minimax and make everything else optional to keep the price down). I think they would find a lot more people open to giving it a try at a lesser price.

genoxcide · Post by **genoxcide** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:34 pm

Creamware already apologized the lack of information on their website and the confusing categories at the phone. Even there is a mistake on their adress

(the new streetnumber is not 0/K1 but 0/K2).
**edit BTW the adress is fixed now

**
They want to fix that ASAP.
Also they promised to make new announcement in the planetz-forum. Thats what i can tell you...
So we should keep patient. At least i got the infos everyone wanted to know and gave them to you all even its not that good as hoped...

We should wait for the final release of SP4 within the next days... and prolly they will make a special offer for existing users in the next time (who knows)

Cheerz
GenocidE

[ This Message was edited by: genoxcide on 2004-04-08 04:39 ]

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:26 pm

Hello to all

I think this conversation doesnt lead to anywhere...
I ll state my opinion using some (greek) proverbs, hope you understand.
To those who get a free upgrade and bitch about not getting free plugins:
- dont check the teeth of a gifted donkey
To those who bitch about droping prices of their audio cards:
- time is money
To those who bitch all the time for no/any reason:
- The bad dick even blames its hair (it looses in translation)

Hope all this doesnt sound too greek to you!
I go now to have some sleep and you go to make some music! Afterall, music is supposed to calm down even wild animals...

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:45 pm

[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2004-04-07 21:48 ]

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:21 pm

I'm not bitching about the price of the cards, I think currently they are excellent value.

I'm just trying to say that perhaps Creamware could try and release a 6 DSP card with no bundled plugins for less money and see how it sells.

I think Creamware would be more appealing than RME offerings and it get a lot more people on the platform.

Just look at what the other DSP platforms are doing and consider it.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:02 am

On 2004-04-07 21:26, rodos1979 wrote:
Hello to all
- dont check the teeth of a gifted donkey

hehe, hi Rodos

You said what I said before:

you don't check a gift-horse's teeth

Horses are more common here while donkeys in Greece

BTW What would Eskimos say?

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:04 am

On 2004-04-08 04:02, samplaire wrote:
On 2004-04-07 21:26, rodos1979 wrote:
Hello to all
- dont check the teeth of a gifted donkey
hehe, hi Rodos You said what I said before:

you don't check a gift-horse's teeth

Horses are more common here while donkeys in Greece
BTW What would Eskimos say?

Gift bear?...Yeha the proverb is not necessary then..

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:30 am

On 2004-04-08 04:02, samplaire wrote:
On 2004-04-07 21:26, rodos1979 wrote:
- dont check the teeth of a gifted donkey
you don't check a gift-horse's teeth
BTW What would Eskimos say?

I don't know about eskimos, but here in Finland (which inaccurately appears as arctic area to many people) we say this about dogs.

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:23 am

Yes, Creamware has caused a lot of confusion with how they worded things. Much of this discussion could have been avoided if they were just clear in their communication and not misleading

i agree with powerpulsarian

Orangensaft · Post by **Orangensaft** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:04 am

Orangensaft · Post by **Orangensaft** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:17 am

..... now it works.

Ok. I was on Musikmesse Frankfurt and the CW Guy said to me: "For the "Old" Users we give a Optional(hi-Prize) PlugIn for the half of the price - more details next time on the website, but be patient."

If its true, this is the best solution for me.

I dont want to confuse you - It´s just what he talked to me.

grEEtz. Orange.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:57 am

I wonder if there is any chance 4.0 will include the guitar amp simulation that's included in Noah (and is part of Six-String, but currently can't be used on external signals)?

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:58 am

Half price? Hmm... sounds really good to me! Maybe that Prodyssey is what I need after all...

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:17 am

Could someone please elaborate for me: When is it before easter?

Or has the plans been about releasing Scope 4.0 before easter been changed?

Thomas