More Trouble: Access Virus for PowerCore Platform

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:44 pm

http://www.synthsite.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1286

"PowerCore can finally boast a new virtual instrument to the growing arsenal of third-party plugins with the news that Access Music, the makers of the much acclaimed Virus range of synthesizers have announced the Virus PowerCore, a virtual version of the Virus synthesizer for the TC Electronic PowerCore PCI and PowerCore FireWire DSP card."

Too bad Creamware didn't get in on the Virus. I don't think it is any better than what we already have available - but it could bring more people to the platform based on the popularity of the Virus.

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:55 pm

Creamware didn't get the project as it would have been very time consuming to port the code.

Powercore uses the same Motorola DSP chips that the Virus hardware does as well those used by ProTools TDM hardware. I assume the code ports over with very little modification.

I saw this coming since the Powercore was release, but I'm surprised it took this long.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:12 pm

It definitely upgrades the PowerCord system as a synth machine (considering it's a synth that is well respected and very well known).

If not the Virus - than what synth would be good for Creamware to go after that would get their name out more and bring people to the platform? Are there any hardware synths based on the Sharc instead of the Motorola chips? It seems like the Motorola chips are much more popular to use. I believe the Nord synths also use Motorola (please correct me if I am wrong).

Anyway - it really is too bad because Creamware could really use this kind of exposure.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:45 pm

Wow,

Read all the tid bits and put it all together, 1 DSP can run 4 copies at 16 voices, thats pretty slick, I only wish I had the firewife version now lol, I was just about to kick in for a Virus C, but now Ill just wait since it will have the same sound since they use the same DSP in the synth, now add the effects modules based on TC verbs and delays and that sounds pretty darn powerfull..

Cheers!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:57 pm

you're right about the Clavias using Motorola as well as Sinix with the 'small modification of code' - Christoph Kemper himself made such a statement when they released their ProTools version.

But imho the sound quality is not the main source for the Virus success (it adds, though).

The machine looks good and is tweakable with knobs for everything - and then sounds good.

Cute (or cool) things are always appreciated for performance - and those performances are transmitted via mags and the music channels - ergo 'ad for free' (...with the right dudes) - it's like an avalanche once you get it started.

cheers, Tom

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:10 pm

Well also the fact that once you own it, you can use Access's site to brows there user patches for the actual indigo and apply them to the powercore version, pretty nice bonus aswell since they say they have over 4000 patches to play with hehe, the future of technology is amazing isnt it

I know this is a CW based forum, but as an owner of a Powercore I have to admit I am rather excited byt this news..

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:29 am

The issue I see with the PowerCore is latency - since it only runs as a plugin. Does anyone know who much latency is introduced with the PowerCore?

The advantage of SFP is you don't have to run it as a plugin. You can run synths directly in the SFP environment and avoid any latency issues (it's more like having a hardware synth instead of software running in a host application).

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:21 pm

Any idea about the price? That would be cool.. as I was about to buy Virus Indigo II... Powercore with this plug would be much more!

Or do you think I should get a NOAH?

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:04 pm

I would get a NOAH -

But if you do go for the PowerCore, I believe the retail price is $399 for the Virus plugin. This is on top of the cost of the DSP card ($1,299 retail) or the Firewire PowerCore ($1,795 retail).

NOAH cost less and comes with a great set of synths included.

petal · Post by **petal** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:24 pm

Hmm - your prices aren't exactly true. I believe that TC has introduces a Powercore card called elements - It's basically the same card as before, but a little stripped down softwarewise. The TC Powercore Elements is a lot cheaper, but I don't know the price in the us but in Denmark an it's about 830 $ in curent valuta-rates.....

Thomas

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:29 pm

You can buy a regular Powercore all day long in the US for around $950.00 US, the price of the plug I to think is around $500.00 also, as far as the latency question that doesnt exactly come to play if your host has PDC, so basically any one on Nuendo/Cubase for both PC or OSX is set, I have a powercore and though the synth that comes with it pretty much is lame, it has zero latency due to Nuendo's full PDC, this also counts for any plugs used for effects aswell.

This synth might really make a huge impact on the TC card since the TDM indigo sounds amazing and its based on the same DSP's.

Lets wait and see, I am thinking I ll have the PowerPulsar II, TC Powercore & UAD-1 for the ultimate in DSP synths and effects..

At that point the only hardware I would want to have is probably my nord rack, korg ms2000 and eith a motif or triton, after that I could survive with the DSP synths alone, im a rompler junkie love the spectronics stuff

Cheers!

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:26 pm

As far as the prices, I was just quoting the current U.S. retail prices. Of course, you never pay the full retail. Also, I did just hear the latest news of the PowerCore DSP card for $499 (minus one plugin)... https://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.ph ... ts_id=2075

So, a the new PowerCore plus the Virus would be around $900 (not bad).

Although, the external FireWire PowerCore is more comparable to the Noah - and as far as I know, the price hasn't dropped on that. Does anyone know otherwise?

The other plugin for the PowerCore that looks interesting is the TC Thirty Vox AC30 Top Boost Emulator.

-----------------

So, PDC allows you to play live through a PowerCore effect without any latency (like if you were playing through an effect plugin in the SFP environment)? Does this just bypass the software in/out and let you play directly from the DSP? I am curious how this works since the the PowerCore DSP card doesn't have in/out like the Pulsar, so it seems it would have to go through a buffer that would cause latency to get to the ouput of your audio card??? Whereas, on the Pulsar card, there is no software buffer since all the hardware (DSP and physical in/out) are all on one card.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:32 am

Not sure of the exzct methods on how PDC works, but I can tell you that when using and DSP plugs from either the TC card or a UAD-1 you no longer have to use delay compensation plugs like you used to.

What I think happens is what ever the greatest latency is, the application delays the rest of the tracks to match its latency, though some how when you hit playback it doesnbt not pause to catch up, its instantanious if that makes sense

What ever it is, it works VERY well and makes using DSP cars like the TC a dream as you can now just program and compose and no longer need to worry about number crunching delays or grouping channels to compensate delays..

Cheers!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:28 am

Yeah, for XTC it's the same too...

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:48 am

Ok - that makes sense - but I don't see how it would help playing in real-time/live through DSP effects (or playing a synth such as the Virus live)?

If I understand this correctly, wouldn't you get latency when playing live - which the recording application later makes up for by shifting everything appropriately?

If the latency you get is low enough, it isn't too much of a concern. But this is really where SFP has the advantage - because there is really no latency when playing a synth live or using an effect in real-time (as long as you are using the SFP environment and not XTC mode).

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:51 am

Honestly,

I cant say for sure how it all works, but in a composition setting there is no latency even while the track is stopped, its just automatically adjusted all the time, during playback and while sitting, so when you play keys, there is no latency involved, infact you dont get any latency for anything actually, everything is automatically adjusted all the time.

Wish I could be more specific, but I just do know know the full details on hows it built and works, I do know its a pleasure to have though hehe

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:02 pm

so, in a live situatuion, and u have 20ms latency, the sound will play 20ms before u press the note on the keyboard?

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:55 pm

hardware latency can be as much as 15ms.the latency on those vst dsp cards is determined by the soundcard.the latency compensation is on playback,with all the recorded tracks compensated to the live track.if your soundcard can play at 7ms,i would expect the vsti(ANY vsti)to play acceptably.

why all this need to compare these cards?they are certainly complementary.

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:20 pm

Here is one more thing to consider on the Virus Powercore plugin.

On the Virus site, they have outlined a "pricing" plan....whereby your initial investment of $399 (or whatever it costs) only gets you a licence to open the plug on ONE DSP. If you want to actually USE the additional DSP of your card, you have to pay extra for a "Multi-DSP" licence.

What a fucking ripoff!

I hate paying for stuff over and over. That's the only real downfall of computer based recording. You keep re-buying the same crap so the companies can generate revenue.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:45 pm

Well, the Virus plugin for Pro Tools is $795!

That's why it drives me crazy when people complain about Creamware's prices.

Many software synths (non-DSP) cost more than the Creamware synths. And the quality of the Creamware stuff is better than most software synths - and just as good as the Virus.