Horrendous bug in MiniMax

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:27 am

I've discovered a horrible bug in MiniMax with velocity response. Say I play four notes in a row. The first note I play softly, the second note I play loudly, the third note I play softly again, and the fourth note is loud again. The first note will be OK, but the second note will keep the same velocity from the first note, and after that everything steals the velocity from the previous note. So the second note will be soft, the third note will be loud, and the fourth note will be soft. Sometimes MiniMax will behave properly, but most of the time it doesn't. I don't ever expect CreamWare to fix this, but I just wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this?

Thanks!

Shayne

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:02 am

and why CW wouldn't fix it?

Quifster · Post by **Quifster** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:42 am

well, i've tried everything, but i don't have the problem you mention. Every patch i try works fine with the test method you described in your post. Some patches don't use the velocity en you can get strange sounding results when you use a longer decay or sustain but that is normal behaviour.

So the problem seems to be related to your setup somewhere.

now i have a few questions to do some more testing for you:

1. Which preset did you use to test that behaviour?
2. did you try the test with all notes in the same key? like 4 times the c3 note. If so, try to create a pattern with c3, e3, g3, a#3. This way you can (by hearing the velocity per note) be absolutely sure that on your system the velocity stealing note is a fact and not a problem of your host sequencer or so.
3. Are you absolutely sure that in your patch the velocity knobs are on level 10 (maximum velocity sensitive)

The problem you are describing is terrible, but it sounds to me like that you have midi problems in your system.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: quifster on 2004-01-06 05:36 ]</font>

Nebukadneser · Post by **Nebukadneser** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:21 am

It's probably caused by setting the polyphony to 1 and playing legato.

Neb

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:40 am

smart

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:52 pm

Not probably-- almost definitely, caused by playing mono, legato! Shorten your release times, make sure you get your fingers out of the way before hitting the next key, increase your polyphony, etc. Not a bug?

-John

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:41 pm

No, unfortunately, it happens in any voice mode, legato or retrig, lo note on/off, any preset, both velocity knobs all the way up, or even halfway. It also happens both directly from my keyboard and from my sequencer, notes spaced far apart, decay off, decay on. I've also switched the priority of my cards, and it still happens. It just refuses to work.

So I've had to remind myself it *is* a MiniMoog and not use velocity!

I don't have any idea why it would happen, and none of my other synths have this problem.

Thanks for all your replies,

Shayne

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:45 pm

Update: in my little test project I was just playing with in my last message, I decided to refresh the DSPs by changing to another samplerate and back. Now it's working. But it will stop working next time. It's unpredictable.

Shayne

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:51 pm

that makes it an even more prefect emulation of analog gear

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:20 pm

Hardware synths are looking better and better to me, but I wouldn't get the new analog moog because you have to send them to the factory to be tuned. I'm thinking Nord G2.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:15 pm

All right, I've done some further investigation. It isn't a bug with MiniMax or any other synth (I've actually been having the same kind of problem with Orion 3, which has just popped up lately). It's a bug with the MIDI source modules. I've ALWAYS had problems with those! For instance, in one project where I have a few MiniMax instances, I was having velocity problems until I replaced the Sequencer MIDI source module. Then everything worked fine. And then in my basic default project, when I connected my keyboard input module directly to MiniMax, I was having problems; but if I routed the keyboard through Sonar and then back into MiniMax through the Sequencer MIDI module, it worked fine.

So, even though the bug is still present, I now know what it is and how to control it.

That's the one thing I don't like about Pulsar: there are a few weird bugs like this.

Shayne

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:10 am

I hope they fix the bugs before they go bankrupt. I have sunk $4,000.00 USD into CW cards and software and I refuse to pay any more until everything works as it should. I've been waiting for years for it to be bug free. The Modular bug is my main problem right now. If I buy anything it will be the Nord G2.

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:46 pm

No app will ever be 100% bug free (unless its of the HELLO WORLD variety).

However I've had 2 CW cards & 3 different pc's, 3 different windows versions and 2 different sequencers and I don't believe I've ever had those midi problems...

I recommend backing up your presets (moving them outside of your SFP dir) and installing 3.1c over the top...then replace your presets (an over the top install shouldn't remove any 3rd party devices or keys).

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:01 pm

I've always had various weird bugs with the MIDI modules for years. Stuck notes, late notes, other strange things that pop up from time to time. Most of the time they work fine, however; if I do have any problems, simply replacing the source modules fixes the problem.

So now I've got MiniMax working OK, and I can finally use velocity! It's a dream!!!

Shayne

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:36 pm

BTW i saw that there is an update of MiniMax available here http://www.beosmusic.de/ - is this old news to everyone? If so i missed it but it seems to be dated Sept 2003. Is this an official update? If so why isn't it on the CW site? Or is it? Why do i ask so many questions?

devo · Post by **devo** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:23 pm

hmm, it sounds more horrendous to me with the bug being in the MIDI source modules instead of the Minimax - and not only because I don't have Minimax myself

but since that bug would effect more or less any setup.

However, I cannot say I have noticed any problems like this with the Midi during the years I have used it. I am curious to know more though - what does the MIDI monitor show when you connect it to a faulty MIDI source?

Am I understanding you correctly that you only replace a bad MIDI source module and then the project works even after restarting SFP? And that the problem has occurred both with Sequencer Midi Source and the hardware Midi Source modules?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: devo on 2004-01-08 13:24 ]</font>

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:50 pm

Well, it's rather weird. I get different results in different projects. For instance, in my basic startup project, the Pulsar MIDI In module has velocity problems but the Sequencer MIDI In module doesn't. In this other piece I've been working on, sometimes the Sequencer MIDI In module will work on loadup and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it outputs bogus velocity information to some synths and not others. But all I have to do is replace the module, and it works fine. But the next time I load the project, it may or may not work. I've had to replace the same Seq MIDI In module several times in this project.

Strange, isn't it?

Shayne

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:51 pm

I actually wonder if you're using the functional equivalent of Sx's [emulated] ports in Sonar when this happens...