Sync Problems

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:42 pm

Hi there everybody,

I'm new around here and want to ask you all for a problem I'm having to hook up 2 Creamware cards trough the S/TDM in the same system.

I had a Pulsar II, and I decided to add more DSP power, so I brought a XTC card.
But they don´t sync together, the SFP says there is no comunication with the second card.

This occurs ramdomly. A week it goes ok, one day it crashes, three days it goes fine, one month it won't work.

The final approach to force both cards to get in sync, it's to hit the ATX tower case, so the leds of the samplerate dialog, don't go flickering.

I think there was a problem with the XTC card, so I brougth a PowerPulsar an set it instead of the XTC.

Of course I took in mind to put the 15 DSP card the first in the PCI chain and all other tips that Creamware recommend for their products.

After a lot of changes in the system because I thinked perhaps was an incompatibility problem, as for example changing from an ASUS P4T-E with P4 2.4 Processor and 1024 MB of RIMM to an ASUS P4B533 with P4 2.5 Processor and 1024 MB of DDR, I'm getting frustrated.

So please, anybody can help with this????

Thanks in advance,

A very nervous Creamware costumer.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:01 pm

if you hit the case and things change,you probably have a bad connector or connection.i'm sure you know,but i'll say it anyway,if you change mobos,you should do a complete reinstall of everything.if you don't do a fresh reinstall,make sure that all the old drivers and related registry entries are deleted,and that all of the new stuff is in their place.

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:35 pm

Hi garyb, pleased to read you!

[QUOTE="garyb"]if you hit the case and things change, you probably have a bad connector or connection[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think this too. But which connector?

I've changed the S/TDM cables three times, also changed the boards combinations (PowerPulsar+XTC, Pulsar II+XTC, PowerPulsar+PulsarII) and things still go wrong.

[QUOTE="garyb"]...if you change mobos,you should do a complete reinstall of everything.if you don't do a fresh reinstall...[/QUOTE]

Sure, I have took notice about this too, but the same results...sync problems.

Kind regards.

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:43 pm

hem! "[QUOTE]" don't work as I expected.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:27 pm

Hi Lagar. I've got a similar system to you - (ASUS P4B533 with P4 2.5 Processor and 1024 MB of DDR, PowerPulsar+XTC) and it works fine, so maybe I can help you.
First, some questions:
Are you running WinXP SP1
Is it installed in ACPI mode
Is the SFP software version 3.1c
Are the drivers for both boards 3.1c

/dave

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:40 pm

Hi dave, thanks for your reply!

Lets see:

- Yes, I'm running XP SP1 (If I have to trust my dealer)

- Sure is ACPI installed. Theres no IRQ Sharing and Creamware´s cards have IRQ's numbers like 20 and 22.

- Yes respecting the version of SFP, 3.1c

- Ok to the drivers, I'm sure they are 3.1c.

It's very frustrating. It runs fine for a while and suddenly loses sync and leds in the samplerate dialog go flickering.

One thing I've seen, is that my Pulsar II do not have the same black top as my PowerPulsar in its Sync Plate connection port. May be this can cause the issue?

Kind regards.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:37 pm

Well so much for the easy fix (software).
Other things to consider:
Is your tower cool enough - Powerpulsar board should have extra fan on it.
Is your power supply adequate - I cured all sorts of problems going from a 350 W PSU to 400W.
Is your project setup as samplerate master or slave?

/dave

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:40 am

Ok dave,

I don't have a cooling fan over the creamware cards, but my tower have one fan for the PSU, three for the ATX tower case, one for the AGP card, and six little fans three in front of each hard drive, that's eleven fans for the system.

So, you think it's cooled enough, or I must add another two fans, one for each card?

If so, where should I place them?

My PSU doesn't match your suggested requirements. It's only 300W. Do you think this difference of 100W can affect sync?

Relating to my proyect, it´s master clock because the PowerPulsar card is ADAT connected to two Alesis AI3 A-D/D-A conversors.

I'm sure these two converters can't cause the issue, because I turned them off, disconnected the ADAT cables, and replaced the ADAT ports tops of the card, and I'm still having the sync problem, this time no flickering leds, but flickering clock.

I asked you about the black top of the Sync Plate in the card but you said nothing.

So you think this has no relationship at all, right?

Kind regards. (a million)

[ This Message was edited by: Lagar on 2003-11-04 11:41 ]

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:54 pm

Hi Lagar.

On 2003-11-04 11:40, Lagar wrote:

So, you think it's cooled enough, or I must add another two fans, one for each card?

It sounds like you've got lots of air moving in there - it should be ok

My PSU doesn't match your suggested requirements. It's only 300W. Do you think this difference of 100W can affect sync?

You're really stretching your power supply with 3 HDs and 2 Pulsars (esp with a PowerPulsar) - insufficient power can cause all sorts of problems, not just at boot up but in the middle of operations. I think a 400W psu would be a good idea...

Relating to my proyect, it´s master clock because the PowerPulsar card is ADAT connected to two Alesis AI3 A-D/D-A conversors.

If you're using digital input you should slave SFP to that source, and make sure your Alesis is running before you start SFP

I'm sure these two converters can't cause the issue, because I turned them off, disconnected the ADAT cables, and replaced the ADAT ports tops of the card, and I'm still having the sync problem, this time no flickering leds, but flickering clock.

If SFP doesn't load (samplerate doesn't lock - is this what you mean by flickering clock?) when SFP is master and no digital inputs, it may be inadequate power supply, or a bad installation.
You say you changed motherboards - did you do a fresh XP install along with this?
Your description of random communication errors, and the problem showing up after you added a second card makes me think this is a low power problem. Your Powerpulsar deserves a 400W PSU

I asked you about the black top of the Sync Plate in the card but you said nothing.

I don't know anything about this. Probly means nothing.

Hope you get it sorted out,

/dave

Post by **garyb** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:57 pm

about that power supply,make sure that it's a high quality one(your upgrade).a cheap power supply is a maker of problems.the actual output can vary widely from the stated output.

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:44 am

Hi dave,

If you're using digital input you should slave SFP to that source, and make sure your Alesis is running before you start SFP

I have a problem with this that can't understand, I take on the converters, then power on my PC, SFP loads in master clock mode, then, I go to the samplerate and change to slave and there it is, leds go crazy and no sync at all.

If SFP doesn't load (samplerate doesn't lock - is this what you mean by flickering clock?) when SFP is master and no digital inputs, it may be inadequate power supply, or a bad installation.
You say you changed motherboards - did you do a fresh XP install along with this?

By flickering clock I mean that the visual reference to which samplerate is actually set (96, 48, 44, 32) flickers in the same way that leds do when the converters are on.

Respecting the fresh XP installation, of course my dealer formated the system HD, and then did the new installation (or at least, he said so).

Well, I will try the PSU change and see what happens.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards.

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:44 am

Hi again garyb,

What do you think about Zalman's low noise PSU? It´s the brand I'm thinking on.

Kind regards.

[ This Message was edited by: Lagar on 2003-11-05 09:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Lagar on 2003-11-05 09:48 ]

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:44 am

On 2003-11-05 09:44, Lagar wrote:

I have a problem with this that can't understand, I take on the converters, then power on my PC, SFP loads in master clock mode, then, I go to the samplerate and change to slave and there it is, leds go crazy and no sync at all.

This sounds like a problem with the external digital source. Do you have another external DAC to test if it syncs up with your Pulsar?
Maybe the Alesis is the culprit. Or possible your cables.

I'd still go for the Zalman PSU though - I've got one, very reliable and not too noisy.

/dave

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:20 am

Hi again dave,

This sounds like a problem with the external digital source. Do you have another external DAC to test if it syncs up with your Pulsar?
Maybe the Alesis is the culprit. Or possible your cables.

In fact I have two AI3 connected to PowerPulsar, one to the ADAT A-I/O and the other one to the ADAT B-I/O port.

Pherhaps I'm doing wrong choosing one of the ADAT ports for sync reference in the samplerate dialog when I turn PowerPulsar into slave?

Should I better take the AES/EBU, even though there's nothing connected to it? I think this last option will not work.

So you agree with the Zalman election, I think it's the best.

Kind regards.

[ This Message was edited by: Lagar on 2003-11-05 11:23 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:21 pm

yes,that ps is fine.it may matter which adat port you sync to.if none work but you card is stable by itself(as master with nothing plugged into the adat ports)then i agree,it's the converter(s) or cable(s).it might make a difference slaved to one port or the other,of course when one converter is masyter,the other must be slave!

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:26 am

Hi garyb,

Ok, say no more, it will be a Zalman.

it may matter which adat port you sync to.if none work but you card is stable by itself(as master with nothing plugged into the adat ports)then i agree,it's the converter(s) or cable(s).

That's the key of the history, with nothing plugged in the ADAT ports, the sync between cards goes down too. So it makes me think it's no related to the converters or cables.

The AI3 converters autoconfigure their sync, so I can´t put them in slave or master, they do it all by themselves.

Kind regards.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:02 am

On 2003-11-06 06:26, Lagar wrote:
That's the key of the history, with nothing plugged in the ADAT ports, the sync between cards goes down too. So it makes me think it's no related to the converters or cables.

Does this happen with SFP set to master and no digital (spdif/adat)source connections?
I'm not sure what you mean "sync between cards" - does the DSP meter show all your dsp?

/dave

Lagar · Post by **Lagar** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:55 am

Hi dave,

Does this happen with SFP set to master and no digital (spdif/adat)source connections?

That's it.

Really amazing and annoying, isn't it?

I'm not sure what you mean "sync between cards" - does the DSP meter show all your dsp?

I mean that suddenly the clock starts flickering and often I get a pop-up that says "card 0 seems not to respond" or something like that.

Respecting DSP's, it starts listing at DSP "1".

I remember that before the change of mobo, format the HD, and reinstall windows, it started listing DSp's at "0".

Kind regards.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:43 pm

perhaps you touched the contacts with your hands when you changed the cards.(if you moved them)worth trying:clean the contacts with 99% or purer alchohol.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:49 pm

Yeah, cleaning the pci and stdm connectors might help. Also check the board seating in your motherboard, make sure it's tight. It's very strange that you mentioning whacking the tower stopped the samplerate flickering. That suggests a loose connection, or worse, a broken circuit somewhere.

Otherewise, I'd be on the phone to Paul at CW support - paul@creamware.com
He's very helpful.

good luck,
/dave