I use to use Cubase VST 32,Pulsar 1(+SRB) on WIN ME,now I intend to change to another program,caused by so many problems with Cubase.I explored Cakewalk.Both programs gave very bad results when I tested midi/audiotiming.I also use Samplitude which is very precise.
Does anybody have solutions to the timing problems in Cubase and Cakewalk?
Thanks in advance
Kim
MIDI/Audio timing problems (by Kim)
Subject: Seq's MIDI and Audio Timing issues
Hi Kim,
We haven't discussed for a while! Thanks for the biostweak program from you last time.
MIDI timing problems? For the Cakewalk and Cubase, try this as follows:
1> Pulsar setup: system-property: make sure to un-check something like "about timimg"
2> Cakewalk setup: Under the audio-option (simmilar to Cubase)
a> Make sure, Set mixing latency to about 92ms +/- 32ms
b> Adjusting the I/O buffer size between 32~128 (step by 32). It depends on No. audio tracks, larger number will get higher latency but can handles more audio tracks. Samething is described in the cset.ini or the buffer size slider in the pulsar-windows setup.
c> On device profile, check/un-check "Use Wave Out Position Timing". This is also a key setup, sometimes it gives the timing more flexible, unlike the MIDI-timing that always be precise.
d> Check the play/Rec timming, it should be WAVE instead of MIDI. You should always set sync-clock to audio, even you don't have any audio yet!!! That is the TRICK!!!
BTW, You probably must re-record (delete the previous audio-tracks) the audio tracks, then set it's as "audio-timing-chasing-clock" for the other tracks (MIDI and audio). The first audio track is very important to keep them syncs, if it's screwed everything must be screwed. it might required about at least -20db (best about -6db to 0db).
Here is a little techical informs for you and someone, who might be interected:
Basically, regardless of which program you use, when you run the MIDI and audio tracks simultancely without timing problems is a good joke! Why? How do we record the audio tracks? are they (audio) rendered (recorded) from MIDI timing? So it will always be gotten latencies via the mix, dynamic-processor, Wave/Asio drivers, DAC, ADC, etc about 300ms~650ms, no way can avoide it! So, the trick is we must use the audio track (with the latency recorded) as the master-timing-clock to compensate its latency, it's best linearity timing, allows the MIDI tracks could re-syncs (slow-down or chasing audio clock, I guess) better. That's all, I know.
Hope this helps,
Long
Hi Kim,
We haven't discussed for a while! Thanks for the biostweak program from you last time.
MIDI timing problems? For the Cakewalk and Cubase, try this as follows:
1> Pulsar setup: system-property: make sure to un-check something like "about timimg"
2> Cakewalk setup: Under the audio-option (simmilar to Cubase)
a> Make sure, Set mixing latency to about 92ms +/- 32ms
b> Adjusting the I/O buffer size between 32~128 (step by 32). It depends on No. audio tracks, larger number will get higher latency but can handles more audio tracks. Samething is described in the cset.ini or the buffer size slider in the pulsar-windows setup.
c> On device profile, check/un-check "Use Wave Out Position Timing". This is also a key setup, sometimes it gives the timing more flexible, unlike the MIDI-timing that always be precise.
d> Check the play/Rec timming, it should be WAVE instead of MIDI. You should always set sync-clock to audio, even you don't have any audio yet!!! That is the TRICK!!!
BTW, You probably must re-record (delete the previous audio-tracks) the audio tracks, then set it's as "audio-timing-chasing-clock" for the other tracks (MIDI and audio). The first audio track is very important to keep them syncs, if it's screwed everything must be screwed. it might required about at least -20db (best about -6db to 0db).
Here is a little techical informs for you and someone, who might be interected:
Basically, regardless of which program you use, when you run the MIDI and audio tracks simultancely without timing problems is a good joke! Why? How do we record the audio tracks? are they (audio) rendered (recorded) from MIDI timing? So it will always be gotten latencies via the mix, dynamic-processor, Wave/Asio drivers, DAC, ADC, etc about 300ms~650ms, no way can avoide it! So, the trick is we must use the audio track (with the latency recorded) as the master-timing-clock to compensate its latency, it's best linearity timing, allows the MIDI tracks could re-syncs (slow-down or chasing audio clock, I guess) better. That's all, I know.
Hope this helps,
Long
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PabloFasan
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: MIDI/Audio timing problems
I'm not an expert in Cubase/Nuendo but yes in Cakewalk.
For get a good sync you must do a fine tuning of the latency times and the I/O buffers.
There are not fixed rules due it depends of number of audio & MIDI tracks that you will use, the HD seek time,the amount of RAM , CPU speed and so.
In this fine tune Pulsar has a very little influence, in sense that the same procedures must be applied to all hardware of any mark that use wave drivers.
Is possible to get 16 32bit stereo tracks (using 24 bit Pulsar drivers)at 96 khz and a lot of adsitional MIDI tracks in Cakewalk, giving to the I/O drivers a size of arround 1536 Kb (and also with a lot of (REAL) latency).
Everything in perfect sync and without phase errors.
But if you pretend to use virtual synths , forget it.
I'm not an expert in Cubase/Nuendo but yes in Cakewalk.
For get a good sync you must do a fine tuning of the latency times and the I/O buffers.
There are not fixed rules due it depends of number of audio & MIDI tracks that you will use, the HD seek time,the amount of RAM , CPU speed and so.
In this fine tune Pulsar has a very little influence, in sense that the same procedures must be applied to all hardware of any mark that use wave drivers.
Is possible to get 16 32bit stereo tracks (using 24 bit Pulsar drivers)at 96 khz and a lot of adsitional MIDI tracks in Cakewalk, giving to the I/O drivers a size of arround 1536 Kb (and also with a lot of (REAL) latency).
Everything in perfect sync and without phase errors.
But if you pretend to use virtual synths , forget it.
-
Guest
-
Guest
Subject: I found the devil.
Hi. I think I found the devil.
I had to improve the performance of my SCSI disk from 20MB to 40 MB. (Maximum is 80MB).In addition I followed yours and Pablos recomandations,and now it seems to be in
sync or I better say almost:with a little but constant fazer effect.
Thanks a lot.
Kim
Hi. I think I found the devil.
I had to improve the performance of my SCSI disk from 20MB to 40 MB. (Maximum is 80MB).In addition I followed yours and Pablos recomandations,and now it seems to be in
sync or I better say almost:with a little but constant fazer effect.
Thanks a lot.
Kim
-
Guest
Subject: Re: I found the devil.
Hello Kim:
The phaser effect has nothing to do with I/O buffers.
The purpose to increase it's size is exactly to avoid signals out of sync.
It could be related with the Big Mixer or with some old devices that reverse the phase of the signals (COMPRESSORS).
Be sure that you analog mixer is not using at the same time the analog input and output sources modules connected to the Big Mixer.
This usually creates feedback in non-inline mixers that's heard as a nasty phased sound.
Hello Kim:
The phaser effect has nothing to do with I/O buffers.
The purpose to increase it's size is exactly to avoid signals out of sync.
It could be related with the Big Mixer or with some old devices that reverse the phase of the signals (COMPRESSORS).
Be sure that you analog mixer is not using at the same time the analog input and output sources modules connected to the Big Mixer.
This usually creates feedback in non-inline mixers that's heard as a nasty phased sound.
-
Guest
Subject: MIDI audio timing...
Stick with Samplitude.
I've done all the tests with the other apps over the years and Samp. is still the best.
For MIDI I simply use Voyetra Pro and map the MIDI into Samp. It's tight and allows for MIDI editing inside Voyetra without having to deal with Samp. lack of full MIDI functionality.
Stick with Samplitude.
I've done all the tests with the other apps over the years and Samp. is still the best.
For MIDI I simply use Voyetra Pro and map the MIDI into Samp. It's tight and allows for MIDI editing inside Voyetra without having to deal with Samp. lack of full MIDI functionality.