Electronic Bass drum

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:19 am

I made some spectral analysis on analog machine drum like JOMOX or TR-909 to found why those machines sounds different from pulsar modular II bass drum synthesis :

I noticed that the waveform used by analog machines are not only sinus or square+sinus (like distording modular drum synthesis) but seems to be more mounting saws+sinus due to the concentration of the harmonics and the non-symetric waveforms.
So then, I tried to make my own bass drum with ADSR's, filters ect.. and I used as oscillators a mounting saw and a sinus.

That's it, the sound of those drums are vibrating (like a kind of very fat string) and I can get more natural analog drums. Really it changes, it's musically better (I have wav files).

I think that drum systhesis in modular needs an evolution in this way.
(Or perhaps I missed something ?)

Thank you for answers.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:40 am

what about Flexor and KickMe! ?
I thought Kickme! get's pretty close to the feel of analog bassdrums.

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:43 am

I will try "kick me", it's a free plugin, isn't it?
And Flexor has drum synthesis ?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:45 am

mounting saws+sinus due to the concentration of the harmonics and the non-symetric waveforms.
So then, I tried to make my own bass drum with ADSR's, filters ect.. and I used as oscillators a mounting saw and a sinus.

What's this "mounting" you're talking about? Is is as simple as just using the 2 oscs in conjunction? Or is it something else.

And about Flexor.. or well, modular in general.. there's nothing specifically "drum synthesis", other than the standard Creamware percussion module. (which is crap anyhow) Flexor's got a really fast AD with really sharp slopes, which makes for strong attack sounds. And of course, a plethora of other stuff that you can juice up your waveforms with.

By the way, can you post your patch and sound example in the modular forum so I can check it out?

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-10-21 04:48 ]

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:57 am

For me, mounting saws are :

/| /|
/ | / |
/ | / |
/ | / |
/ | / |
/ | / |
/ |/ |

(Don't know if it's the real denomination.)
They have the particularity to give lots of harmonics. For the same range of frequency you can get twice harmonics than a square wave.
That is what I noticed with analog drums.

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:00 am

................
....../|....../|
...../.|...../.|
..../..|..../..|
.../...|.../...|
../....|../....|
./.....|./.....|
/......|/......|
................

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:04 am

I will submit the patch this week-end.
How can you submit ?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:05 am

back to the days of ANSI art and BBS. hehe.

So it's like an up saw.

To submit your file, go to the modular patch forum, and when you click post, you'll be asked for your patch file (zip) and sound example and so on. looking forward to your patch.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-10-21 05:06 ]

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:37 am

Does anybody have other ideas to make nice sounding drum synthesis ?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:05 am

I have a patch that I use over and over for 909 style kicks. I think I've used it in most of my recent tunes...

Anyhow, it's sin based, but uses 2 sets of AD envelopes to create alot of punch. So it's very "knock knock" sounding. It also uses an AHD envelope for volume to maximize "body". It's sometimes a bit too loud tho. It's got no filters. I just apply EQ during mixing.

It's a very messy patch so I'll have to tidy it up before I share it. You can hear it in action with the tokyo motor show tune. The patch is good for kicks that aren't too grungy, so I use it for soft 4x4 tunes. It's got good attack so it stands out without flooding the other instruments.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-10-21 06:11 ]

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:27 am

On 2003-10-21 04:43, Faybs wrote:
I will try "kick me", it's a free plugin, isn't it?
And Flexor has drum synthesis ?

Kickme is a freebie demonstrating some of the percussive possibilities of Flexor:
- The oscillator is properly retriggered. It is sample accurate as opposed to CW osc. The kick will sound exactly the same with each shot.
- Flexor's very short AD's make for super punch: smallest division of its AD knobs is one sample!

Flexor's NBL oscillators and envelopes are created especially to create punchy and accurate bass and percussive sounds. Flexor offers new options, it doesn't repeat anything existing for the SFP platform - to redo the same modules would be a waste of time and energy.

Try out KickMe and you'll understand what I'm talking about

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:32 am

at0mic wrote:
Flexor's NBL oscillators

What's an NBL oscillator?

Royston

p.s. I prefer Chimay to Duvel!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:33 am

It'a a new oscilator, part of the flexor package. Actually it's a set of oscilators. You get a bunch of flexor.

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:40 am

Yes at0mic, I also noticed with the drum patch I made that the kicks are not the same from a shot to an another. (I have to sample the best to my ears)
Seems that the attack in ADSR (the one applied on pitch or filter or volume, don't know) changes, even with envellop synchronisation. Is there a trick, or a function I missed ?

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:45 am

OK, everybody is talking about FLEXOR envelopps and oscillators, I really want to hear one drum made with those new modules.
Please, thank you

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:26 am

you can download the KickMe! for free from http://www.adern.com

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:03 am

Welcome Faybs, I´ve upload a drum example track for you in the music forum.
You want it you should get it

I hope this example can help you somehow.
cheers

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&0

Faybs · Post by **Faybs** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:14 am

Take a look to this site, they studied how bass drum is generated by popular analog drum machines :

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/a ... ts0202.asp

Notice that the most popular one (TR909) uses a sawtooth signal oscillator and not a sinus (coz richer sound, plus a percussion signal for emphasizing the attack.

Anyway I will check KICKME instrument, and check FLEXOR drum song I've download.
And for sure, it is really better to use a sawtooth signal.
So please CREAMWARE, could you upgrade your modular drumsynth ? Thank you.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:52 am

the thing is... you've already built your new kick drum with the saw too yeah? That's the whole point of modular synthesis. The CW drum synth is just there for an "easy" solution.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:43 am

so, dude, it means your kick drums will sound the same each time, because the oscillators are retriggered each time. Taht means they start at the same phase each time, which doesn't cause phase cancellations like the CW oscillators do.