Recording Vocals

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:05 pm

I think in many ways the pre is more important than the mic. I made a bit of a mistake in buying my Fatman 2 in that, I should've purchased a more flat, solid-state, pristine pre to compliment the warmth of the NTK, I really have to get most of the volume out of the post stage as if I crank the gain stage, my vocals sound mulchy and are hard to place in the front of the mix.

On the other hand, a boosted gain stage and low post stage makes my Ovation sound magical.

It just took me a long time to realize that, at least for my purposes, the pre should really be neutral, or be capable of being neutral, as one is likely to make each recording a caricature of itself if they can't let the flavor of each tool stand on it's own. I find I have to really spend time making sure I'm not muddying the tone of my recordings because I have to compensate for the extra stage of analog noise that the Fatman 2 introduces. Having played my NTK through a Manley Langevin, I can now identify where I was getting myself into trouble (and now I need to save up $1700).

My $.07

Sam

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:26 pm

Thanks for those .07 cents, Sam. I realise I'd better stay open minded on the preamp too.......

The comments on the Audix were really appreciated. My ear told me the SM58 was a bit dead for my voice so I'll check out Audix for stage use.

In terms of bassy voices, I seem to remember Tom Jones had a similar problem and needs to be specific about his choice of mic.....(I'm an amateur but I think he's an amazing vocalist.....am I showing my age again?) His budget is probably well beyond mine though I figure I'll get many years of joy with a good mic/pre. I'd better do some searching, but more comments always welcome.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:48 pm

Mikka

You should probably stay away from cheap tube preamps.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:32 pm

Thanks Immanuel

I'd better go do some homework on the whole issue. I guess sometimes it's more important to just get in and do it.....Whatever I end up with will be better than I have now.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:47 pm

the manley's pretty nice,huh?

there are a lot of good pres right now.(great river,avalon,grace,focusrite,manley etc.)

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:13 am

Is the quality linear relative to price? What would be the price point where you get diminishing returns? ie where the last 20%performance costs 80% more......

I've still got my tape 8 Track and a DBX Unit. Anybody laying vocals to tape first or is it preferred to go direct to disk?

[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-09-20 02:26 ]

arela · Post by **arela** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:00 am

Another perspectiv (not scientic at all)
garyb wrote "if one cannot do good work with ANY of the large diaphram condensors on the market,it is not the fault of the mic."

Since I have a Joemeek vc3 preamp which i use for my acustic guitar (fishman pu), i thought, why not buy a studio microphone.
My voice is crap, but my niece want me to make a song or two for her to sing.

After scanning the web (not all US shop will ship to Europa) i desided to buy a
ADK A51S. Why? best reduced price (if i'm not tricked

)

Well, in any case, the ADK is probably a nice mic!

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:33 pm

the adk is fine for lots of stuff.it is from the 777 audio factory which was set up by neumann.basically,it's a cheap neumann.the quality of the electronics is the main handicap on that mic(it IS very inexpensive).royer,of the ribbon mic fame,makes a kit to transform that mic into a tube mic very similar to an older u87...

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:12 pm

What really suprised me is how quality the 'Really Nice Preamp" and "Really Nice Compressor" are. They looked like little 60's Radioshack kits, but they sound awesome. The best part is, they are so small. They're perfect for the laptop studio I've been building... like 1/3 a rack space per unit, and not too expensive either. Definately worth investigating if on a budget.

Sam

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:01 pm

After looking at the options, and reading some of the posts (thanks dehuszar) my selection for TODAY is the Rode NTK coupled with a Focusrite Trackmaster pre. (Studio Projects C1 is not much cheaper than the Rode in Australia...low volume I guess). Output impedance of the Rode is listed as 200 ohms. I'm unsure of the input impedance of the Focusrite.

If anybody would have concerns/agreement about this setup........feel free to comment.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-09-21 03:46 ]

Lemke · Post by **Lemke** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:58 am

Don't buy NTK. AT 4050 or Shure KSM will be better at close price. Or something second hand. In our age newer means worse. Even Rode NT2 was better than NTK.

And my opinion on cheaper Focusrites.
They build good preamps even for Platinums.
Other bells and whistles are useless and of lower quality.
For the price of Trakmaster you have two channels of excellent pre in FMR RNMP.

[ This Message was edited by: Lemke on 2003-09-25 06:30 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:16 am

Well, i don't agree at all, and i'm not alone, read this for those interested :

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.n ... 1D005425AB

Lemke · Post by **Lemke** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:29 am

Another review.. After my private investigation of NTK qualities I feel very suspicious when someone (even if I don't know that guy) says: 'I don't like it, it sounds cheap'. It's a signal to me and if it combines with praise reviews in web magazines... To be sure take a bunch of different mics on moneyback and choose one that you like.

Post by **hubird** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:31 am

great Marcuspocus, I didn't know this one, now I'm even more glad with my NTK!!

Lemke, you was talking about sibilance, let me quote this from that link:

My wacky crummy voice took on this sheen that had air for days, yet for all the high energy there was no modulated sibilance whatsoever. I even stood there hissing like a snake till I got dizzy and needed a beer. It wasn't going to happen.

Lemke · Post by **Lemke** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:44 am

hubird

I only wanted to inform: I've bought it and it was a bad experience.

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:06 am

hubird,

i have nill experience on NTK
but
as i mentioned recently
my NT1000 IS sibilant bright mic.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:30 am

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

I was recommended the NTK some time ago by an audio engineer who told me they were far more prized overseas than in Australia. I seem to remember him telling me that for some voices they were overbright......... excessively sibilant, so some people truly HATED them.

His language became quite rapturous when he described how HE felt about them....."You can always pick a track that's recorded on the NTK or Classic....it's got a special sound and you just go....there it is....that's a Rode". He felt it was an underrated world class microphone that people overseas paid far more for than we do....and still got great value for money.

I guess the lesson is to use whatever works for you.

Re: reviews and endorsements...hey Lemke, I tend to agree. Now ....Bono uses an SM58 on his recordings. But if you read a recent interview with his producer ("Electronic Musician I think..could be wrong")....the guy states he has a "special" relationship with Shure..."they've always looked after me really well..."

Doh.....is that why Bono uses an SM58 in a studio and everybody knows about it? When Fender brought out their second attempt at solid state amps, Eric Clapton did some concerts with a couple of these together....A sales chappy told me how incredible they must be if Clapton used them on stage......Who paid endorsement fees to Clapton?.......Doh...

Thanks for the comments on the Really Nice Pre....I'm gonna check that out too...

I think that you are ALL right in your opinions.....

Post by **hubird** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:03 pm

sorry Michu for false semi quoting...

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:03 pm

My final point....if I can shut myself up...is that the way some singers phrase their syllables and move their mouth....probably combined with the tonal characteristics of their voice......may mean they're better off with different mics. I'm not a great singer so any singers...feel free to comment.

deejaysly · Post by **deejaysly** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:19 am

On the subject of preamps again....

Thanks to Lemke for comments on the TL Audio 5050.

Basically, I am after a simple-to-use all-in-one preamp/compressor unit (~200GBP max.) which, at the moment, seems to down to the Tube MP units that Krizrox mentioned and the TL Audio 5050/5051 which I seem to keep going back to for some reason. I know these are both based on Tube designs but not completely sure this is what I need. I seem to keep looking at the Focusrite stuff for solid state units.

The ART Tube MP units are ideal considering their price (~100GBP) but can't see any control over the OPL stage - I guess because it's just a limiter that works on the input/output gains like the equivalent of a d-comp? This may even be enough. **KRIZROX could you comment on this as you have experience with using these units. Am I right about the limiter? Is it quite easy to work with or a pain in the ass?**

Initially, I couldn't seem to find a source for the ART Tube MP units in the UK or ordering internationally for delivery to the UK... but now I have.

Has anyone else had experience with the ART Tube MP units?

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Peace.

[ This Message was edited by: deejaysly on 2003-10-13 03:27 ]