Total Vinco Retardation....

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:56 pm

Well, I just got the Vinco, and I must say it is pretty sick... I like it best running before the mixer, not as an insert.

Seems there is a little overhead programmed into it, as you can have it internally working in the red, without clipping.

That's right, no snap, crackle, and pop, just excellent compression that slams me like a red headed step-child. It seems to behave like an actual hardware unit (imagine that...). Nice job, Creamware.

Sven

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 7:01 am

Yeah - I like it too.

I use the mono version as an insert frequently. Especially on vocals.

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:33 am

You should also try using it prior to the mixer, not as an insert. It seems to behave slightly differently when it is used that way. I've noticed that with some other effects as well.

I'm getting a PowerPulsar next, and I'll be using a Vinco for almost every channel.

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:08 pm

I'm a frequent user of Vinco and I like like it VERY much. As a owner of UAD-1, I'm kinda spoiled with 1176 emulation, but the Vinco is up there qualitywize, and adding new stuff as well. The Vinco sounds SUPER smooth on just about everything you throw at it. Just too bad they didn't include the all-buttons mode. I'm a sucker for that. And if they made a LA-2A, I'ld buy that as well.

Interloper : I can't hear the defference between insert/before mixer that you do, but maybe my ears has gone death through many years of rehearsing rock music. Can you please explain what you hear?

The stuff about going into red with no clipping is the nice fact that SFP is 32 bit and the Vinco has a nice saturation-style softclip on board.

I can't say enough nice things about this baby, so if you're into compression (and who isn't), then you can't really do without it.

_________________
Yours truely

Noah Laux
----------
http://www.thalamusic.dk


[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2003-08-15 21:09 ]

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:47 pm

Thalamus,

Sorry for not responding sooner, but I've been bogged down in some stuff.

In any case, I ran a test with two Vinco's, one as an insert in the STM 1632, the other prior to the mixer.

I took a simple kick drum loop and ran it through the same preset on each Vinco, one at a time (I think I used the Pumper preset).

I noticed the following: Vinco as a insert is not as forgiving when it comes to clipping the drum loop.

When the loop ran through the external Vinco at the same mixer volume setting, there was no audible clip at all, even though the mixer meters were in the red.

Then I switched of the external Vinco and turned on the insert compressor with the same preset, and noticed that some audible clipping was evident.

I am assuming (albeit carefully) that there seems to be an additional overhead programmed into the Vinco when used externally to the mixer, which is why I stated that it seems to work like an external device.

Essentially, that is the character difference that I noticed. Seems that the dynamic range is increased when using it externally.

On another example, I remember that some effects have a slight different characteristic when being used as inserts.

I noticed this in particular with the VerbPro. Perhaps it has something to do in what order the appropriate algorithms are executed...?

Sven

[ This Message was edited by: interloper on 2003-08-26 23:50 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:23 am

gain in the mixer.

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:57 am

Are you saying the mixer gain limits the dynamic range...?

Post by **garyb** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:23 pm

i'm saying ANY extra gain eats up some of the headroom in a device.

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:26 pm

True...

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:08 pm

Also, I think inserts can be vulnerable to phase issues. perhaps you should try some tests with the phase fixer (see devices page).

peace

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:36 pm

inserts will fall prey to phase issues even when the mixer itself has 'PhaseComp' enabled.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:06 pm

true,but that is not the main matter.hardware mixers suffer from phase issues(worse than the minor errors in the inserts in a phase compensated sfp mixer caused by devices being on different dsp chips for sure)and people manage to live with them.the trick is getting the best results from what you have.nothing is ever perfect.still,try the suggested device!

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-08-27 21:08 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:08 pm

Absolutely

... just wanted to offer a possible explanation as to why he was hearing a difference in sound...

Incidentally, I always patch into the project window rather than using insert slots... one reason is the phase thing, but on another tip, while some people find inserts easy to use, I find it's harder to keep track of what's going on in the project when using them dotted around the mixer (oh, and also the fact that I use the MicroMixer

).

peace

[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2003-08-27 21:11 ]

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:50 am

Yeah, I had that problem too. It's easy to forget what's going on with the inserts...then you gotta pull them all up and stuff.

But for FX like Hi Cut and Low Cut, I don't mind using the inserts.

onomat · Post by **onomat** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:14 am

you will love this then...

http://www.deviceplug-ins.com/devil.htm

regards
sayton

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:04 pm

Is a demo available?